Wow, alot happened in this thread in one day.

I have no dog in this fight, but my main thought is why use something that has a worse chance of success than something that has a better chance? I don't know about you guys, or how many deer any of you have actually killed. I try to be as humane and effective as I can, with whatever weapon I am using. I'd say most of us do. This includes both shot placement AND load. My thinking is sure, pretty much any bullet will work on a perfect shot...but what if its not perfect (by choice or accident)? I try and shoot every animal in the sweet spot, but everyone knows it doesn't happen every time. Even when you do hit perfectly, you can still hit a rib which can be quite hard depending on the animal and size. I've personally shot a ton of deer... probably more than most, less than many I'm sure. What I've learned is that no matter how hard we try, the "perfect" shot opportunity doesn't always work out as we hoped it would. I want to stack the odds in my favor...so I use what will do that.

Ron, I appreciate all the testing you have done. Its done a nice job of showing how the various bullets stack up apples to apples, and cost you a considerable amount of time, money, and effort. Sure, he's not shooting it through deer, but I believe his test is pretty good. Skin and Bone is harder than carpet and plywood, so I'd say its at least a decent comparison.

Muley, you shouldn't get so worked up... I personally enjoy your grumpy banter on all the forums, hope you stick around. You've been madder than this before. Look if you want to use the PB's, then do it. I personally would find another option, but I hope they do work for you. And post up your targets and harvest photos for use to see... that would be awesome.

I haven't witnessed a PB failure, or talked to anybody in person that had a failure. I've seen through hunts i've gone on with friends at least 10 kills from deer to elk, and they all were successful.

All the negative I see is from forums, and the majority is from those who have never shot any game with a PB. Even when the PB has killed the game they call it a failure. Dead is dead.

I've read many times guys claiming the Barnes and Partitions aren't good bullets, because they failed for them. Are those bad bullets too. A hunter will never blame themselves for losing game. It always has to be the bullet, or some other reason they dream up.

I'd be willing to bet if it could be proven that outside of a PRB, the PB has killed more game than any other muzzleloader bullet.

If the PB was total trash it wouldn't work for anybody. Why does it work perfect for some, and fail for others? It's the same bullet being shot.

I'm confident if I shoot an elk through both lungs with a Platinum 338gr bullet i'll be filling the freezer. I'm also confident that if I shoot a mule deer in the lungs with a Aerolite 250gr at my ranges i'll be filling the same freezer. Will I get a pass through? Probably not, but I never did with the 30-30 either. It's not a requirement, and the fact that so many bullets are shown that killed game prove that. Nobody has ever shown a bullet that shot game that got away.

It's really simple. My dad taught me to take nothing but a double lung shot 100% of the time. I've stayed with that all my life, and it never let me down. Yes, I have to pass up many shots, but so what? It's better than taking chancy shots, and failing.

If I was the type to take a shot at any angle I could get. Then a PB would be a poor choice, and i'd use a bullet that would bust through anything. Sometimes you can tell what shots a hunter will take by the bullet they use.

I use a PRB from the early 60,s until 99 I went through the calibers and found I liked the 54 from that time until I switched to inlines I never had any problem. I took a bear that dress out 308# with one shot at 177 yds. many good size Northern IL deer and a dozen or so hogs two of the deer were over a 150 yds.
Comparing PB to PRB is a basic fallacy a PRB is a decent load and using the appropriate size worked the world over for 400 or 500 years.
Also all PB are not created equal at least 2 or 3 of the heaviest ones should have the potential, if they work well in your gun. What blows me away is people spending the same amount of money that a really good bullet costs for the pathetic things.

I just remembered. Hawgslayer used PB's for years. Ask him if he had any failures. He's someone you can count on to tell the truth.

They worked for you for 30 years, and now they're pathetic, or did I misunderstand you?

What if something goes awry and your perfect shot hits the shoulder? Wouldn't you rather have a bullet that will work in that scenario? Of course it will also work in the double lung shot, as may well the PB or many other bullets. Its not the solution for the "perfect" scenario that I want, its one that works when crap goes wrong.

I get it Pete, I try to double lung each time too. But reality is, sometimes things happen. Animal moves or we move right at the shot. In that case, we didn't get the perfect shot... then what?

Like I said, I have shot a ton of deer... even on "perfect" shot opportunities, stuff happens. Maybe folks that have killed only a handfull of deer haven't experienced it yet, but eventually its likely. When that happens, why not use something that up's your odds? That's all I'm saying.

Heck I know a guy that shot a deer with a .17hmr... they aren't that tough if you hit them in the right spot (with any bullet). Obviously elk are bigger/tougher but the same thought applies. Its when you don't hit the perfect spot that is more important, to me anyhow.

No
No
No
I never said they weren't thoughtful
I never said they couldn't be well read
(last sentence) Isn't it a coincidence that the Clique here pretty-much never shows hunting reports on Powerbelts, roundballs and XTPs, the top-3 Deer Harvesting bullets in the ML harvesting business. Again, go pay Merriam Webster a visit on what comprises a Clique. Go tell 95% of the world's ML hunters (several million) that they are doing the sport a disservice.

I don't care what you shoot. Please don't care what I (or Muley) shoots. You have the right to announce on this board that something else is better. But 7M of us just aren't buying, what (hypothetically) 35,000 of you-all are saying.

I am done here. Hopefully you-too.

What clique?

Very few here (in or out of this clique you say exists) shoot PB's. Plenty use RB's, and quite a few use XTP's, so that statement is not really accurate.

I agree, alot of folks use PB's, but imo its only because they are readily available everywhere. Educated consumers/hunters usually opt for something better.