Now the cva shooters have 2 bullets , powerbelts and Federals Yippee
That keeps quality right there together in pairs
CVA , Traditions
Powerbelts, Federals
APP, Black MZ
2 guns 2 bullets2 powders

ive had thors not expand in water. They sure expand in animals however. Also had round balls recovered off the range that didnt expand much. The one i recovered from my deer however told me otherwise.

naaah theres lots more powder and bullets cva folks can use. Us colorado guys though certainly appreciate more conicals on the market.

I really think from my viewpoint is they are not consistent - some do not even expand.

The bullet shown certainly looks nice -but I am somewhat concerned that it did not pass.

Then you read other posts that show no expansion at all. Ron's tests actually showed me that I had no interest in the bullet.

I do not know Ron's actually feeling about the test - while shooting water jugs is not like shooting an animal - it is a good comparison of bullet performance between bullets in the same medium with the same powder load.

Look guys we are all fans of muzzleloading. So no matter what a person chooses to use is their own choice. Unless someone asks for advice there is no need to criticize their choice of equipment. And certainly no reason to begin a pi$$ing contest in here about one item or another.
All it does is creates friction between members and gives new comers a bad taste for the forum. Who knows, maybe these newbies have something to say that could benefit one of us. We don't know it all. Although some in here may think they do!

I find this most interesting when you consider Ron's jug comparisons.


It leads me to believe the copper alloy Federal used/uses is hard and somewhat brittle. Nothing wrong with a "controlled" fracturing bullet but i doubt this bullet is meant to fracture by design.

Evidence is mounting that its expansion is a carp shoot. It may, it may not or it may fracture. Kinda inconsistent for a premium priced bullet. A simple change to pure copper would likely improve consistency and predictability.

Ive shot the Barnes 225gr XPB way way faster than designed. Considering ive more than doubled its intended MV it did better than the Federal. Within a wide fps window its very easy to predict how it expands. Ive yet to see it fail on media or game.

The same can likely be said for the new CF series by Lehigh if they fragment with less FPS requirements than the previous versions. Nothing ive seen seems to indicate otherwise. Im predicting the harvest pics later this year will confirm my guesimate.

we know, its not a lehigh

I thinks Ron's testing shows what needs to be done to get reliable expansion and energy.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/blac...ml#post4206008

I would think I would seriously weigh his suggestion if you want to use the Federal.

The OP says he was using 100 grains (by volume) I assume and shot the elk at 60 yards +/-. At that range the bullet worked pretty much as designed, even though I would expect it to exit at 60 yards. I think I can safely say that either a Barnes or a Nosler Partition would have. I would even lay the bet that a comparable Speer Deep Curl would.

Actually it is kinda like verification of Ron's testing.

It is my belief as Ron has suggested - if you want to shoot this bullet at extended ranges you will need to increase the powder charge to get the necessary velocity.

Once you have done that the next question would be what would the bullet do at the closer ranges, especially shooting thin skinned whitetail. Might it be driven hard enough that it would not reliably expand at short range?

There have been comments on other forums of this very problem.

Does anyone know or has Federal posted the operating velocity of the bullet?

And once again I have no first hand experience with the bullet, just a lot of questions after viewing and reading.

I would consider using one if the conditions were favorable but i like the lead 350gr version much better. There is no getting around the poor sectional density of a sub 270gr 50cal bullet. You can put whatever tip you want on it and the BC will never be that great.

The Fed 350gr needs less speed to expand and i bet its true BC is far better.

Federal does claim 2198 fps muzzle velocity with 120 grains by volume of Blackhorn 209 from a 24 inch test barrel. Based on the 1358 fps retained velocity at 200 yards published by Federal with this load, the 200 yard B.C. is .167