rodwha

I am looking at .50 cal sidelocks that aren't the length of a pine tree nor the weight of a boulder for hunting with, but it seems all I can find are 1:48" twists, which I'm told really won't keep a good grouping. The only rifle I have found was Lyman's Great Plains Hunter with a 32" barrel, 50" OAL, and 9 lbs. It's nearly as big as I am!

What kind of groupings would you expect with light/heavy 44/45 bullets in sabots or 50 cal bullets at 100 yds with a fair rest? I'm thinking 100 yd 0 with 125 yds as a max range.

Anyone use SST, FTX, FPB's and notice much better groupings? It's what I was considering when, after punching in the numbers on a ballistics calculator, I thought 175 yds ought to be doable.

cayugad

I found it impossible to say a rifle will shoot this bullet and not this other one. A 1-48 twist actually shoots round ball a lot better than most claim. I have some 1-48 twist that shoots sabots well. Others not at all. So the group size has a lot of to do with your skills, and the load you find. I would guess, 5 inches or smaller can be expected.

MountainDevil54

1:48 is great for patched balls and conicals, even sabots too. The old saying goes, You never know until you try, is exactly the case.

I get excellent groups with a huge 454gr conical in a 1:48 twist cabelas hawken and supposedly those long bullets should not be accurate in that gun. But they are!

Even in my 1:66 twist flintlock i can get hunting group accuracy out to 75 yards with the 245 and 295gr powerbelts.

Quicksilver34

I LOVE a 1:48 for Conicals it is my favorite.
370gr Maxi Ball with wad and 90gr of t7 and you will be in buisness.

as far as a rifle if you don't want anything to heavy or long LOOK at the lyman deer hunter or even a good TC renegade, my renegade with the above load has a 2" group and has taken deer out to 125yds with complete pass threws Its an Awesome combo. Also don't be afrade of the patched RB they are killers too.

bronko22000

rodwha you will come to find out quickly that each and every muzzleloader, even those of the same model and caliber will shoot best with a different load combo of bullet/powder/powder charge. If you're like most of us on here who own several MLs you will find it imperative to maintain a log as to what rifles shoot what combo best.
I've had 1:48 twists rifles that shot patched balls fantastic while others shot conicals well.
With your Great Plains Hunter with its 1:32 twist I believe a good starting point would be somewhere around a 300 gr .429" or .451" bullet with appropriate sabot and assuming it is a caplock, some Pyrodex RS or FFg black powder. Start with 80 gr and work up in 10 gr increments to sell what load shoots best. Remember to swab between shots for the most consistant results. Once you find the sweet spot for that bullet/powder and find that it does not meet your satisfaction, then move to a different bullet or powder or even a different sabot. Your Lyman will shoot great for you once you find what it likes. But its a process of elimination/experimentation.

Blackelk

My Lyman Great Plains 54cal rifle has a 1 in 66" twist and shoots a TC Maxi ball style conical like a champ at 100 yards. It also has a 32" barrel and has been lapped.

pluckit

Take a look at Tradition's Deerhunter models. They have 24 inch barrels with a 1 in 48 inch twist that I have found to be accurate and won't break the bank. And the .54 caliber Deerhunter I have shoots sabots well.
Here's a 2 shot group at 100 yards I didn't want to mess up with a third shot.

Here's a 2 shot at group at 100 yards that I did mess up with a third shot.

Here's a three shot group at 100 yards I didn't mess up too bad.

The Deerhunter should fit your size requirements but may not meet up to your standards for quality, I myself find the quality quite satisfactory for the cost of the rifle.

rodwha

I keep looking over Lyman's rifles and thinking that the Deerstalker would be a better purchase over the Traditions Deerhunter. I've heard nothing but good things about Lyman and hit or miss with Traditions.

Anyone know if Lyman is all American?

I am curious about shooting RB, but seems windy days could be horrible at distance. Any reason why I couldn't triple patch my .457 balls and fire them?

When the term "conical" is used does it only refer to big chunks of lead or does it include, say, the Hornady FPB's (full bore bullets)?

.50 cal handgun bullets are designed differently and won't work correct?

I recently acquired an Old Army and am considering conical/bullet moulds. If I get into casting what size would I need for a .50 cal rifle?

Bronko: Sorry I wasn't more specific in my question. I meant bullet weight in a 1:48" twist. If a 60" is ideal for a ball, and 20-38" is ideal for long bullets I assumed that maybe lighter weight bullets might be better for a 48" twist. But my reasoning has let me down several times in the past...

I intend on using 3F 777 so as to stock up on one powder to use for both my revolver and rifle. And from the data I saw on Hogdgon's sight 3F typically produced much higher velocity. And from what I've been reading it's less fouling, easier to clean, and produces the least amount of smoke compared to other subs. Currently I have 2 lbs of Pyrodex P and 1 of RS that I got with the Ruger.

pluckit: I would assume that I'd probably be happier with the Lyman's over the Traditions. I typically believe in the idea of you get what you pay for. What would you expect for $250?

I keep looking at Lyman's Trade Rifle and various Hawkens too, but I think the Deerstalker is calling to me even though I think I'd be happier with the performance from a 1:32" twist GP Hunter. It's just not very handy, and an extra $200 for gear is always a nice bonus!

Anyone find the aerodynamic (SST, FTX, FPB, etc.) bullets worth the expense over a standard bullet design?

Thanks for the input guys!

cayugad

I keep looking over Lyman's rifles and thinking that the Deerstalker would be a better purchase over the Traditions Deerhunter. I've heard nothing but good things about Lyman and hit or miss with Traditions.

Anyone know if Lyman is all American? Lyman is made in Italy by Investarms Inc. Investarms also makes Cabela's rifles and their own brand of rifle.

I am curious about shooting RB, but seems windy days could be horrible at distance. Any reason why I couldn't triple patch my .457 balls and fire them? Well you can try it. But if the rifle is .50 caliber I would suggest a .490 ball or if a Lyman even a .495 with a thinner patch. I shoot a Lyman .50 caliber Trade Rifle as well as a .54 caliber Trade Rifle. Both flintlock. Excellent roundball shooters. And my Lyman for some reason with the 1-48 twist shoots Powerbelts really well. My .50 caliber will shoot sabots pretty good too.

When the term "conical" is used does it only refer to big chunks of lead or does it include, say, the Hornady FPB's (full bore bullets)? The Hornady FPB is a conical. The Sabertooth is a conical. The Thors are conical bullets. Conicals are any full bore size bullet that does not require a sabot and in most cases a patch. Although if the conical is small, some will paper patch them or teflon tape them.

.50 cal handgun bullets are designed differently and won't work correct? We shoot hand gun bullets all the time. Hornady XTP's in .452 diameter in a sabot shoot fine in a .50 caliber. But using them as a full bore conical never worked for me. I do cast a .458 pure lead 424 grain bullet that I shoot out of my .451 white rifle with excellent results. But remember, its pure lead. Many of the hand gun bullets we shoot are either copper coated. Also some of the lead handgun bullets you see are not pure lead. Its because they are used in cowboy action pistols. So if you want to shoot a "pure lead" hand gun bullet, make sure it is pure lead.

I recently acquired an Old Army and am considering conical/bullet moulds. If I get into casting what size would I need for a .50 cal rifle? The size depends on the caliber of the rifle and whether you want to use a sabot. If no sabot.. .50 caliber .. any think like a .501-.503 seem to work well.

Bronko: Sorry I wasn't more specific in my question. I meant bullet weight in a 1:48" twist. If a 60" is ideal for a ball, and 20-38" is ideal for long bullets I assumed that maybe lighter weight bullets might be better for a 48" twist. But my reasoning has let me down several times in the past...

I intend on using 3F 777 so as to stock up on one powder to use for both my revolver and rifle. And from the data I saw on Hogdgon's sight 3F typically produced much higher velocity. And from what I've been reading it's less fouling, easier to clean, and produces the least amount of smoke compared to other subs. Currently I have 2 lbs of Pyrodex P and 1 of RS that I got with the Ruger.

pluckit: I would assume that I'd probably be happier with the Lyman's over the Traditions. I typically believe in the idea of you get what you pay for. What would you expect for $250? Before you rule out Tradition rifles, I have three of the traditional rifles. Two of them are 1-48 twist and one is 1-66 twist. All of them are excellent shooters, once you find the load. I have three Lyman rifles (all flintlocks) and they too are all good shooters. Its just a matter of what you like to shoot, and what you want to spend. Tradition rifles are well made.

I keep looking at Lyman's Trade Rifle and various Hawkens too, but I think the Deerstalker is calling to me even though I think I'd be happier with the performance from a 1:32" twist GP Hunter. It's just not very handy, and an extra $200 for gear is always a nice bonus!

Anyone find the aerodynamic (SST, FTX, FPB, etc.) bullets worth the expense over a standard bullet design? Again, it depends on the rifle your shooting and what you want the rifle to do. If your shooting 100 yards average, a simple XTP or Deep Curl will plant most animals just fine. But if I were shooting long distance, then the SST might be a real good option on the field.

Thanks for the input guys!

rodwha

cayugad: Would you say that the Traditions Deerhunter is the equal to Lyman's Deerstalker?
Teflon tape works like paper patching?