Got her dialed in
09-23-2011, 11:35 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Clifton, VA
Posts: 1,103
Since I was perceived as taking a side on a recent pi$$ing match on this board, I might as well butt in here. Why not, I’m bored.
Most anyone that has been involved with MLs for a small amount of time fully realizes that T/C’s manuals are grossly out of date, erring on the side of less liability, particularly for the older models such as Encore and Omega. So what happens when someone new to MLs is advised that he should disregard a powder maker’s recommendations in favor of the ML manufacturer’s manual when considering powder loads? Well, say the newbie goes and takes a look at T/C’s manual. OMG!! T/C does not mention Triple 7 or BH209!! That must mean they are both unsafe!!
I think one of the points made by NATO is dead on, namely, that it’s perhaps a little disingenuous suggest to consulting the T/C manual when considering BH209 loads, whether by volume or weight.
Most anyone that has been involved with MLs for a small amount of time fully realizes that T/C’s manuals are grossly out of date, erring on the side of less liability, particularly for the older models such as Encore and Omega. So what happens when someone new to MLs is advised that he should disregard a powder maker’s recommendations in favor of the ML manufacturer’s manual when considering powder loads? Well, say the newbie goes and takes a look at T/C’s manual. OMG!! T/C does not mention Triple 7 or BH209!! That must mean they are both unsafe!!
I think one of the points made by NATO is dead on, namely, that it’s perhaps a little disingenuous suggest to consulting the T/C manual when considering BH209 loads, whether by volume or weight.
09-23-2011, 12:06 PM
#33
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
I really do not think you were the cause of anything... you asked a question got a legit answer from the forum. So none of the happenings in the match are your doing.... I think it truly is a personality thing which is none of your doings.
Most anyone that has been involved with MLs for a small amount of time fully realizes that T/C’s manuals are grossly out of date, erring on the side of less liability, particularly for the older models such as Encore and Omega. So what happens when someone new to MLs is advised that he should disregard a powder maker’s recommendations in favor of the ML manufacturer’s manual when considering powder loads? Well, say the newbie goes and takes a look at T/C’s manual. OMG!! T/C does not mention Triple 7 or BH209!! That must mean they are both unsafe!!
It is unfortunate that not all manuals are as complete as we would like them. Following a powder manufacture's recommendation is always prudent if the manual does not provide you the information that you need.
If at anytime you have a question about your or any specific ML or even rifle - i would think it would be prudent to call the rifle manufacture also and confirm what you might need to know.
I think one of the points made by NATO is dead on, namely, that it’s perhaps a little disingenuous suggest to consulting the T/C manual when considering BH209 loads, whether by volume or weight.
09-23-2011, 12:28 PM
#34
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MD/PA Line
Posts: 598
I honestly thought he said exactly that... it can be either way. And I say it is not necessary to weigh BH, which it isn't. It was engineered to be thrown into a volume measure. Will your loads be more consistent weighed? certainly but for hunting - really not necessary.
I am not sure that he was trying to scare anybody - maybe save the new guy a little money as a beginning shooter and let him work his way up to the more advanced techniques.
Personalities and the conflicts that evolve from these forums are sometimes awful, but you in your profession you would certainly no more about that than I...
I am not the best content reader in the world but I do not remember him saying your loads were unsafe... I certainly do not and I guarantee you Lee would not think 105 grains of BH in a TC would be dangerous. In my mind he was wrong about the 100 grain limit and he should go back and look at a current manual. Although it is possible that in the old days TC followed Hodgdon's 100 grain recommendations - so he might have read that along time ago.
And I would agree from what I know about you and your training - safety would always come first.
I did - in fact it is on another tab right now, but the differences between the the Pro Hunter and Omega is so slight not worth mentioning.
I do not know why you would do that... differnt opinions can be healthy as long as they are not conflicts.
Sorry! I did not mean to tread on your site or your thread - guess I was mistaken as I thought this was an open board and an open forum. Did not know I had a groupie - i always assumed people on here were open minded independent thinkers.
I can not imagine you could lead many of these guys anywhere... in my mind they are like farmers... prioud, independent, and able to make their own decisions.
I would also think on a open forum you would expect to get the good with the bad - something again I think you deal with everyday.
I am not sure that he was trying to scare anybody - maybe save the new guy a little money as a beginning shooter and let him work his way up to the more advanced techniques.
Personalities and the conflicts that evolve from these forums are sometimes awful, but you in your profession you would certainly no more about that than I...
I am not the best content reader in the world but I do not remember him saying your loads were unsafe... I certainly do not and I guarantee you Lee would not think 105 grains of BH in a TC would be dangerous. In my mind he was wrong about the 100 grain limit and he should go back and look at a current manual. Although it is possible that in the old days TC followed Hodgdon's 100 grain recommendations - so he might have read that along time ago.
And I would agree from what I know about you and your training - safety would always come first.
I did - in fact it is on another tab right now, but the differences between the the Pro Hunter and Omega is so slight not worth mentioning.
I do not know why you would do that... differnt opinions can be healthy as long as they are not conflicts.
Sorry! I did not mean to tread on your site or your thread - guess I was mistaken as I thought this was an open board and an open forum. Did not know I had a groupie - i always assumed people on here were open minded independent thinkers.
I can not imagine you could lead many of these guys anywhere... in my mind they are like farmers... prioud, independent, and able to make their own decisions.
I would also think on a open forum you would expect to get the good with the bad - something again I think you deal with everyday.
09-23-2011, 12:42 PM
#35
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MD/PA Line
Posts: 598
This is from the FAQ's page of Blackhorn 209.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
09-23-2011, 04:26 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
This is from the FAQ's page of Blackhorn 209.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
Do you guys realize that T/C, Knight, and Savage view these boards? I'm not sure about CVA. I got an email from T/C tonight which i'm begging him to allow me to post on here. He mentioned three posters on this forum, and you know who you are. What you guys claim i say and the writing is here and on other post's not even edited.
I supplied a couple other links as well.
BTW- Dave is with Western Powders today, any info you want me to get for you should be know problem.
Read your manual, and follow the load information. And also keep it safe clean and simple.
09-23-2011, 04:37 PM
#37
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
I have owned four or five Encores and i believe they are only rated to 100grn by volume with a 200grn saboted bullet. I don't have a manual to verify handy but check yours out. Your Encore manual should also explain volume loading. I would be very surprised if your manual mentions weighing charges.
As you read above i clearly say i believe. Secondly i say i don't have a manual to check yours. What that means is, I dont obviously know for sure.
You have spent a lot of time pointing this out already. I hope you know your wasting your time. These guy's are going to make it out to be whatever they want. It's like the email said, its only three or four guy's. It's really sad it's about reading a manual and weighing powder.
09-23-2011, 04:42 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Saxonburg Pa
Posts: 3,925
This is from the FAQ's page of Blackhorn 209.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
Question: Can I weigh my charges?
Answer: Yes. If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
I posted facts when I answered the question. Grouse posted what he thought then went on to scrutinize loads in a TC Pro Hunter.
09-23-2011, 05:25 PM
#39
Typical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: MD/PA Line
Posts: 598
Do you guys realize that T/C, Knight, and Savage view these boards? I'm not sure about CVA. I got an email from T/C tonight which i'm begging him to allow me to post on here. He mentioned three posters on this forum, and you know who you are. What you guys claim i say and the writing is here and on other post's not even edited.I supplied a couple other links as well.
BTW- Dave is with Western Powders today, any info you want me to get for you should be know problem.
Read your manual, and follow the load information. And also keep it safe clean and simple.
I can call or email Don at Western Powders for all the info I need.
