What's Next?
08-05-2011 | 01:21 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,496
Likes: 0
From: Yucca Valley,Ca
Lee
I am thinking that I would like to agree with a lot of what you have commented on, but you also have to realize that I live in one of those states that say the 45 is is minimum. It is a blanket rule to cover flintlocks and percussion gun... the inline just get caught in the blanket.
I am not sure what the optimum twist might be for shooting 40 cal bullets from a 45. I think we already tried the 1-20 twist and it did not work out the best, I know that I can shoot 40 cals from a 1-24 very well in fact really well. I am more inclined to believe the 1-24 might be the wiser investment.
Talking to Del (MMP) or even Ron (Harvester) - the 45 market is not there that would allow them to make any major changes in the 40-45 sabot. What ever they did would have to be able to work in all 45's.
Actually I really like hunting deer with the 45's that I have and if the truth be know the 1-30 twist that my Knights currently have work very well for me, not to say if Knight were to come out with a 1-24 twist (50 or 45) that I would not really be interested because i would. If they came with a 1-20 or 1-22, I would be more inclined to wait and see.
I am thinking that I would like to agree with a lot of what you have commented on, but you also have to realize that I live in one of those states that say the 45 is is minimum. It is a blanket rule to cover flintlocks and percussion gun... the inline just get caught in the blanket.
I am not sure what the optimum twist might be for shooting 40 cal bullets from a 45. I think we already tried the 1-20 twist and it did not work out the best, I know that I can shoot 40 cals from a 1-24 very well in fact really well. I am more inclined to believe the 1-24 might be the wiser investment.
Talking to Del (MMP) or even Ron (Harvester) - the 45 market is not there that would allow them to make any major changes in the 40-45 sabot. What ever they did would have to be able to work in all 45's.
Actually I really like hunting deer with the 45's that I have and if the truth be know the 1-30 twist that my Knights currently have work very well for me, not to say if Knight were to come out with a 1-24 twist (50 or 45) that I would not really be interested because i would. If they came with a 1-20 or 1-22, I would be more inclined to wait and see.
especially the .45 cal 1:30 comment, they shoot the 40 cal saboted bullet options out there very well and the 330-370 gr conical offerings excellent also.as i said earlier in this thread different twists in either .45 or .50 cal in limited amounts would be great, just can't see changing the existing twist.more .40 cal bullets options sure would be nice! Ray
08-05-2011 | 03:38 PM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
Likes: 0
I am content with my current setup, wouldn't spend the money to change...If I did make a change and felt I had to make longer shots, I'd contact the guys up in Greensboro that developed the Savage and have them make me one...Why keep fooling around with different powders when a smokeless gun will do all that needs to be done (if legal of course)...And...If new powders give similiar velocities as smokeless then how long will it be before game laws are changed???
In the past, 90% of my muzzleloader hunting has been done with flintlocks...I do own a Knight and shoot 80grs FFF Goex behind a .430 Hornady 300gr XTP...It's devastating and I'm good to 150 yards...I'm not fussy about how dirty a powder is or cleanup as I've shot black powder since the 70s and frankly don't understand why guys fuss about cleaning their guns...
I may be spending more time with the Knight as I've had cateract surgery the last month and I'm not sure I'll be able to see the rear sight anymore...
In the past, 90% of my muzzleloader hunting has been done with flintlocks...I do own a Knight and shoot 80grs FFF Goex behind a .430 Hornady 300gr XTP...It's devastating and I'm good to 150 yards...I'm not fussy about how dirty a powder is or cleanup as I've shot black powder since the 70s and frankly don't understand why guys fuss about cleaning their guns...
I may be spending more time with the Knight as I've had cateract surgery the last month and I'm not sure I'll be able to see the rear sight anymore...
08-05-2011 | 04:51 PM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
Likes: 0
True...I just can't understand all the hype about other powders that are easier to clean, makes no sense...
I'm saying, if I were going to improve on what my Knight does, I'd go smokeless...
Does Backhorn smoke??? Does it give higher velocities or is it just easier to clean???
Before paying what they want for that stuff, I'd go smokeless...
I'm saying, if I were going to improve on what my Knight does, I'd go smokeless...
Does Backhorn smoke??? Does it give higher velocities or is it just easier to clean???
Before paying what they want for that stuff, I'd go smokeless...
08-05-2011 | 05:20 PM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,612
Likes: 0
Get some of Docs old 45x40 350gr PowerStars in a 1-20 and just get them moving 1650fps. They may have some drop but it still has over 1000fpe at 250 yards. The conservative .312 BC does wonders for how fast is sheds fps even though it starts low.
It just all breaks down to how fast and heavy you want to shoot. I know of a guy on Dougs is using a sabotless 325gr and large amounts of BH209 and breaking 2200fps accurately in a 1-22 45cal. Plus at less PSI than nearly all SML sabotless and many saboted loads.
Busta was using a NEF 45 1-20, a 250gr FTX and 120gr or less of BH209 to get about 2200fps or more. His groups were pretty nice too. His saboted 200gr SST 40cal loads weren't bad either.
I really think something in between the very forgiving 1-28 and the 1-20 is the ticket. The 1-22 is well proven in Douglas, Mcgowen and Pacnor 45cal SML barrels. I dont see any reason it wont work with BH209 or other subs too. GM would likely even make them for less as long as they dont need to be SML rated. Their 45 blanks are rated plenty high enough for even 150gr of BH209 and a 350gr bullet.
A 45x40 350gr PowerStar type bullet in a sabot at 1800fps is very doable and is a near duplicate of the 350gr in a 45-110 or 40-90.
It just all breaks down to how fast and heavy you want to shoot. I know of a guy on Dougs is using a sabotless 325gr and large amounts of BH209 and breaking 2200fps accurately in a 1-22 45cal. Plus at less PSI than nearly all SML sabotless and many saboted loads.
Busta was using a NEF 45 1-20, a 250gr FTX and 120gr or less of BH209 to get about 2200fps or more. His groups were pretty nice too. His saboted 200gr SST 40cal loads weren't bad either.
I really think something in between the very forgiving 1-28 and the 1-20 is the ticket. The 1-22 is well proven in Douglas, Mcgowen and Pacnor 45cal SML barrels. I dont see any reason it wont work with BH209 or other subs too. GM would likely even make them for less as long as they dont need to be SML rated. Their 45 blanks are rated plenty high enough for even 150gr of BH209 and a 350gr bullet.
A 45x40 350gr PowerStar type bullet in a sabot at 1800fps is very doable and is a near duplicate of the 350gr in a 45-110 or 40-90.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 08-05-2011 at 05:52 PM.
08-05-2011 | 06:37 PM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
Likes: 0
Well I wanted a new Knight but all they had to show me was bolt actions. What I would like is a drop or break action in a 1-24 twist with a 24 inch barrel. In other words a short but efficient [ with Blackhorn] rifle with light weight and good balance, preferably in 50 caliber. A gun designed for deer hunting but capable of any kind of hunting. I believe a 350 or 400 bullet would stabilize in a 1-24 twist for really big game and that it would still shoot all the normal bullets and loads.
08-05-2011 | 07:13 PM
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
08-05-2011 | 08:20 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,926
Likes: 0
From: Saxonburg Pa
Well I wanted a new Knight but all they had to show me was bolt actions. What I would like is a drop or break action in a 1-24 twist with a 24 inch barrel. In other words a short but efficient [ with Blackhorn] rifle with light weight and good balance, preferably in 50 caliber. A gun designed for deer hunting but capable of any kind of hunting. I believe a 350 or 400 bullet would stabilize in a 1-24 twist for really big game and that it would still shoot all the normal bullets and loads.
08-05-2011 | 10:31 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,612
Likes: 0
Supposedly those have one of the thickest (1 3/8) barrel section lengths of any sub gun near the powder area. I had the cheap Ovation version. The barrel was basically the same and tough as nails. I would love to cut one down for a brush gun.
Last edited by Gm54-120; 08-05-2011 at 10:41 PM.