Wolves...Is it true?
02-11-2011, 06:13 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 360
So you think they are not getting closer and closer to civilization? Two Recent Photos say Differently! Mid-November, 2008, less than 1 mile from
Salmon High School!
Taken Mid-November, 2008, less than 5 miles from Ketchum, ID.
Salmon High School!
Taken Mid-November, 2008, less than 5 miles from Ketchum, ID.
02-11-2011, 06:15 PM
#23
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 360
copied and pasted this from another forum ...good advise I'd say
just 1 question...how many on this forum have contacted their representatives in DC about this problem?
I have have you all?
If you go to the BigGameForever site here:
http://capwiz.com/biggameforever/home/
They have a pre-formatted email message that you can send to all the relevant politicos (State and Fed) stating you are in favor of HR 509 and S249.
if ya prefer to draft your own letter and save it to like "my documents" ..word processor deal or whatever...copy and paste for each rep!!
False Rhetoric
Last year, in response to several petitions to delist wolves filed by the NRA, Safari Club and the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin, the USFWS announced it would accept public comments on and publish a delisting proposal for wolves in the Western Great Lakes by April 2011.
Predictably, groups like the CBD and HSUS have challenged the possibility of delisting. This time they argue that state management plans are lacking. While representatives from the CBD refused to talk with me, stating, “We’re too often misquoted by groups like the NRA,” the HSUS and other anti-hunting groups paint a picture of states hell-bent on destroying wolf numbers.*
“The biggest current problems with delisting are that the state management plans authorize drastic and dangerous reductions in wolves within the states affected, [emphasis added], and that the Service [USFWS] has failed to fully take into account issues that will significantly impact wolf survival—such as disease and hybridization with other species—before approving state management plans that also fail to adequately address these issues,” said Jonathan Lovvorn, vice-president and chief counsel for HSUS.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
“Our [Wisconsin’s] management goal is greater than three and a half times the federal delisting level,” noted Wydeven. “Our main goals with delisting would be to eliminate problem wolves, reduce wolf abundance in areas of conflict, and stabilize population growth to reduce spread into areas of conflict.”
More evidence of the political rhetoric can be found on the HSUS’s Web site:
“All state plans but Minnesota's…include immediate hunting seasons to reduce current wolf populations to numbers that hover just above the minimum for relisting.”
Neither Michigan nor Wisconsin has any immediate plans to allow wolf hunting by the public. In fact, Wisconsin requires approval from its legislature to hold public hunts, something that might take years to garner.
When the delisting/relisting carousel will stop is anyone’s guess. But expect the antis to drag the issue back into court, costing American taxpayers millions, while they in turn line their own pockets—all the while making a mockery of the Endangered Species Act. In fact, in an action separate from the Great Lakes issue, the CBD filed a notice of intent to sue the Department of the Interior in December for failing to develop a national recovery plan for wolves. Whether they focus on the northern Rocky Mountains, the Western Great Lakes region, or the entire country, these groups are continually forcing wildlife decisions out of game managers’ hands—where they belong—and into courtrooms
Wolf Depredation
With strong wolf numbers comes a corresponding danger to livestock. Between 2000 and 2010, the Minnesota Department of Agriculture paid out nearly $850,000 in wolf claims to farmers who lost cattle or sheep. Thats just one sate. The situation is similar in Wisconsin.
“Last year wolves killed livestock at 40 farms, which is 10 more than we’ve ever had,” said Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources biologist Dr. Adrian Wydeven. “States need to be able to manage wolves to maintain a healthy population and reduce conflicts.”
When wolves kill livestock, it’s up to states to foot the bill. The federal government doesn’t reimburse states for claims paid out for wolf depredation, nor do states receive any funding earmarked for investigating and prosecuting wolf poachers.
No one knows how many whitetail deer wolves kill each year in the Western Great Lakes, as researchers haven’t investigated the issue. In 2010, both Michigan and Wisconsin, with help from Safari Club International, began studies examining the effects of predators like bears, coyotes and wolves on deer. Both studies are in their infancy, so it will be another year or two before researchers can draw any firm conclusions. But even if direct predation is not yet quantified, the mere presence of wolves can affect deer, and deer hunting.
“What tends to happen is that a wolf pack moves into an area temporarily and the deer react by shifting their home range,” explained John Erb, research biologist with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. “This helps explain why deer hunters see much fewer deer when wolves are around.”
That’s little consolation to hunters who have seen their harvest numbers drastically fall in areas where wolves are top dog.
“Over the last several years, my deer hunting has been ruined by wolves,” said Bob Stinson, who hunts in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.
Hunters also feel the bite of wolves in other ways. In 2009, my parents’ neighbor in Michigan lost three bear-hunting dogs from an angry pack that regards dogs as interlopers.
“There have been a lot of guys I’ve talked to who have had their rabbit dogs killed by wolves as well,” added Michigan hunter Gary Coates.
There are currently 2 bills considered by congress right now, I suggest to anyone that truly wants to handle the out of control wolf populations in the entire US, you contact your Senator and Representive immediately so we can expediate this process and save America wildlife for current and future generations. RMEF President and CEO David Allen says two bills in Congress, a House version (H.R. 509) and a new Senate version (S. 249), hold the best promise. RMEF is asking lawmakers to remove unnecessary federal protections on burgeoning wolf populations and grant science-based wolf management authority to the states.
I have have you all?
If you go to the BigGameForever site here:
http://capwiz.com/biggameforever/home/
They have a pre-formatted email message that you can send to all the relevant politicos (State and Fed) stating you are in favor of HR 509 and S249.
if ya prefer to draft your own letter and save it to like "my documents" ..word processor deal or whatever...copy and paste for each rep!!
False Rhetoric
Last year, in response to several petitions to delist wolves filed by the NRA, Safari Club and the states of Minnesota and Wisconsin, the USFWS announced it would accept public comments on and publish a delisting proposal for wolves in the Western Great Lakes by April 2011.
Predictably, groups like the CBD and HSUS have challenged the possibility of delisting. This time they argue that state management plans are lacking. While representatives from the CBD refused to talk with me, stating, “We’re too often misquoted by groups like the NRA,” the HSUS and other anti-hunting groups paint a picture of states hell-bent on destroying wolf numbers.*
“The biggest current problems with delisting are that the state management plans authorize drastic and dangerous reductions in wolves within the states affected, [emphasis added], and that the Service [USFWS] has failed to fully take into account issues that will significantly impact wolf survival—such as disease and hybridization with other species—before approving state management plans that also fail to adequately address these issues,” said Jonathan Lovvorn, vice-president and chief counsel for HSUS.
Nothing could be further from the truth.
“Our [Wisconsin’s] management goal is greater than three and a half times the federal delisting level,” noted Wydeven. “Our main goals with delisting would be to eliminate problem wolves, reduce wolf abundance in areas of conflict, and stabilize population growth to reduce spread into areas of conflict.”
More evidence of the political rhetoric can be found on the HSUS’s Web site:
“All state plans but Minnesota's…include immediate hunting seasons to reduce current wolf populations to numbers that hover just above the minimum for relisting.”
Neither Michigan nor Wisconsin has any immediate plans to allow wolf hunting by the public. In fact, Wisconsin requires approval from its legislature to hold public hunts, something that might take years to garner.
When the delisting/relisting carousel will stop is anyone’s guess. But expect the antis to drag the issue back into court, costing American taxpayers millions, while they in turn line their own pockets—all the while making a mockery of the Endangered Species Act. In fact, in an action separate from the Great Lakes issue, the CBD filed a notice of intent to sue the Department of the Interior in December for failing to develop a national recovery plan for wolves. Whether they focus on the northern Rocky Mountains, the Western Great Lakes region, or the entire country, these groups are continually forcing wildlife decisions out of game managers’ hands—where they belong—and into courtrooms
Wolf Depredation
With strong wolf numbers comes a corresponding danger to livestock. Between 2000 and 2010, the Minnesota Department of Agriculture paid out nearly $850,000 in wolf claims to farmers who lost cattle or sheep. Thats just one sate. The situation is similar in Wisconsin.
“Last year wolves killed livestock at 40 farms, which is 10 more than we’ve ever had,” said Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources biologist Dr. Adrian Wydeven. “States need to be able to manage wolves to maintain a healthy population and reduce conflicts.”
When wolves kill livestock, it’s up to states to foot the bill. The federal government doesn’t reimburse states for claims paid out for wolf depredation, nor do states receive any funding earmarked for investigating and prosecuting wolf poachers.
No one knows how many whitetail deer wolves kill each year in the Western Great Lakes, as researchers haven’t investigated the issue. In 2010, both Michigan and Wisconsin, with help from Safari Club International, began studies examining the effects of predators like bears, coyotes and wolves on deer. Both studies are in their infancy, so it will be another year or two before researchers can draw any firm conclusions. But even if direct predation is not yet quantified, the mere presence of wolves can affect deer, and deer hunting.
“What tends to happen is that a wolf pack moves into an area temporarily and the deer react by shifting their home range,” explained John Erb, research biologist with the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources. “This helps explain why deer hunters see much fewer deer when wolves are around.”
That’s little consolation to hunters who have seen their harvest numbers drastically fall in areas where wolves are top dog.
“Over the last several years, my deer hunting has been ruined by wolves,” said Bob Stinson, who hunts in Michigan’s Upper Peninsula.
Hunters also feel the bite of wolves in other ways. In 2009, my parents’ neighbor in Michigan lost three bear-hunting dogs from an angry pack that regards dogs as interlopers.
“There have been a lot of guys I’ve talked to who have had their rabbit dogs killed by wolves as well,” added Michigan hunter Gary Coates.
Last edited by farmdude01; 02-11-2011 at 06:27 PM.
02-11-2011, 06:24 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 360
excellent post from another hunting forum
I think you are onto something with the wolf reintroduction....but by default the anti's have gained a foot hold with the wolves or red tail hawks and other things that are placed on the protective lists. Personnaly, I don't think the anti's and all these animal do righters give a darn about the animals, I do however think they don't was hunters to be able to hunt them. Therefore, they have figured out if they can get animals on the protected lists and then in some cases get them reintroduced to old ranges, they predator animal may and most likely will cause prey populations i.e. deer, elk, moose, rabbit, quail, etc. to fall below unhuntable populations and therefore have a chance to get them on the protective list.....which as we know it is VERY difficult and darn near impossible to have an animal removed from that list! SO, slowly they win and we lose. AGAIN, the animals rights folks don't give a hoot about the animals, they just don't want us to hunt them, any of them.
02-11-2011, 07:42 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Idaho
Posts: 1,081
Those of you who think wolves only get a little over a 100lbs, have obviously never seen a wolf, you need to wake up and smell the coffee! Those photos ARE REAL!!! I work in a taxidermy shop in northern Idaho were wolves ARE a major problem, here is a picture of one we have in the shop right now, that is a standard height door and about 4" of his feet are on the floor. This photo isnt doctored!, I have more photos of it I will down load tomorrow of it laying on a 8 foot table, it stretches from one end to the other. This wolve is tubed skined and salted and dried, and actualy smaller than it would be rehydrated or alive.
02-11-2011, 08:18 PM
#27
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
I understand the problem many States face with wolf populations. Wisconsin is one of them. Myself and others who live near me have contacted the DNR and even the Governors offices with emails and such. We normally receive letters back with standard ... we are looking into the problem and understand your concern rhetoric.
Many have adopted the three SSS solution. Shoot them, Shovel for the hole, and Shut up. While this might seem wrong, many feel justified in doing just this. Wolves kills pets, wolves kill live stock, and what is next.. a child waiting for the bus? Unfortunately, I was raised not to break the law but work inside the law. So I will keep attending meetings and sending out letters.
Wisconsin was very close to a season until the Federal Government shut it down. To give you an idea of how bad the wolf problem is... we have an elk herd of about 200 animals in the Chequamegon National Forest. They are talking about trapping the elk and moving them to a different part of the state because due to the lack of deer now, the elk are being singled out. Between the wolves and the black bear, the calf crop is very poor to none, now.
I must admit, the wolves I have seen in the wild are now where near some of those that others have posted pictures of. Some very impressive photographs. And doing some thinking, the wolves in the original picture were taken in winter time. That means their large outer guard hair is on them which makes them look much larger then they really are. Anyone that ever gave a collie a bath knows what I am talking about. So maybe they are real. I just hope the areas that are infected with these wolf population problems can get the kind of help they need to control them.
Many have adopted the three SSS solution. Shoot them, Shovel for the hole, and Shut up. While this might seem wrong, many feel justified in doing just this. Wolves kills pets, wolves kill live stock, and what is next.. a child waiting for the bus? Unfortunately, I was raised not to break the law but work inside the law. So I will keep attending meetings and sending out letters.
Wisconsin was very close to a season until the Federal Government shut it down. To give you an idea of how bad the wolf problem is... we have an elk herd of about 200 animals in the Chequamegon National Forest. They are talking about trapping the elk and moving them to a different part of the state because due to the lack of deer now, the elk are being singled out. Between the wolves and the black bear, the calf crop is very poor to none, now.
I must admit, the wolves I have seen in the wild are now where near some of those that others have posted pictures of. Some very impressive photographs. And doing some thinking, the wolves in the original picture were taken in winter time. That means their large outer guard hair is on them which makes them look much larger then they really are. Anyone that ever gave a collie a bath knows what I am talking about. So maybe they are real. I just hope the areas that are infected with these wolf population problems can get the kind of help they need to control them.
02-11-2011, 08:22 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,181
These are not BS photos. These wolves are BIG.
The picture that is supposed to be out side salmon That is not the place. That pack is the pack that lives North of Sun Valley. That hill behind them is Phantom Hill By easlys hot springs just north of north fork of the Big wood. Ron
The picture that is supposed to be out side salmon That is not the place. That pack is the pack that lives North of Sun Valley. That hill behind them is Phantom Hill By easlys hot springs just north of north fork of the Big wood. Ron
02-12-2011, 05:52 AM
#29
Typical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Montana
Posts: 581
Hey Cayugad, the SSS solution has changed. Its now SL. Shoot them and Leave Them. I've heard of soo many stories around glacier national park when FWP was putting in more grizzlies that the Natives around Cut Bank were shooting every griz they could find. FWP couldnt do much since it was on the Reservation. Eventually FWP gave up and no more griz problem. I"m sure alot of ranchers in MT have went to the SL solution.
02-12-2011, 06:08 AM
#30
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Maryland
Posts: 601
I don't get why people think these sizes of wolfs might be fake.
2 years ago I went to the eastern shore of Md and bought a Blk Lab puppy from a very well known breader. Blood lines out the door...well 2 years latter my Duck dog is 115lbs of muscle. I'm 6'5 and his front paws are at my shoulders. Averages are just that averages. Wolfs, dogs, people whats the difference years ago in the NBA a forward at 6'7 was big now thats a gaurd. I say we need to cut those wolf numbers down and down fast so our game herds stay strong.
2 years ago I went to the eastern shore of Md and bought a Blk Lab puppy from a very well known breader. Blood lines out the door...well 2 years latter my Duck dog is 115lbs of muscle. I'm 6'5 and his front paws are at my shoulders. Averages are just that averages. Wolfs, dogs, people whats the difference years ago in the NBA a forward at 6'7 was big now thats a gaurd. I say we need to cut those wolf numbers down and down fast so our game herds stay strong.
Last edited by jaybez101099; 02-12-2011 at 08:10 AM.