Nope, pretty clear, but you better look in the mirror there FG. The world is not black and white and your flavor of the month isn't necessarily the only "right" answer. Hopefully in a few years you will realize that.

I could say a lot more, but I am home in Texas now instead of Colorado hunting because I had to fly back for a funeral of a close friend after hunting opening morning. Kind of puts life in perspective. Where or not you are someone else knows right from wrong on the best primer seems like pretty small potatoes right now.

FG/MD54

But that is exactly the point if your breech is built correctly you leave all those drill bits at home - you do not need them.

Last week shooting a Knight with a Lehigh conversion and a $4.00 vent liner - i shot 31 shots down range using 120 grain loads of BH - never cleaned anything - was not necessary.

If your CVA plug were built correctly you could do the same. I would venture that ronlaughlin might tell you the same with his modifications of the CVA plug.

With the modifications you do not need to use the hottest primers. Try to understand, and i know that is difficult, what badbowbender2 is trying to explain about the volume of gas and debris that the hottest primers expel.

Here just in case you failed to read... but he really does know what he is talking about.

If you make the modifications to the CVA plug - you can leave your drill bits at home - you will not even need the CCI-209M or any any other hot primer to get BH to work. Call Don at Western and verify that most BP even closed BP's were not built to handle BH. They were built to reduce blow back... so flash channels and flash holes were reduced.

CVA plugs are not TC plugs, they dont wear out after 400-600 shots. vent liner in a tc plug is a good idea, especially on their $40 breech plugs.

Closing in on 3,000 shots on my original accura plug. No signs on erosion at the primer end or the flash hole.

FG/MD54

Thank Gosh!... but that is not the point you always try to twist the subject to make it into a comparison of any product to a CVA product - really does not matter what the subject might be.

The point at hand is the CVA plug is not the best design for seamless ignition of BH-209 and again I ask you to call Don they have tested almost everyones breech plug. He will offer his suggestion to the modification of the CVA plug, you might not like his answer but it is what works reliably for Western Powders. The CVA plug was undoubtably designed like many others to reduce blow back, keep the breech clean, like most any other manufacturer. That thought alone makes it difficult to use BH with these types plugs.

Further I really do not care what you shoot and most often what you think because it is so biased it is very difficult to spearate reality from fiction.

It just bugs me a bit when you tell a new BH user trying to use it in a CVA - that the problem is all him because it can not be his gun - gosh it has to be him as he has a CVA and nothing is wrong them... That is not the answer the user needs.

People in this thread have confirmed that there is a problem and have offered to help him... even you have offered your help... carry a set of drill bits. IMO bringing a set of drill bits with you is not the best answer. Why not just fix the problem - it is a very easy fix, especially with a CVA plug. They are very inexpensive and the metal is so soft they are very easy to drill and polish. And I did not decide the CVA plug metal was soft... I just drill them, it was detirmined a machinist who modified a CVA plug and an Omega plug in a lathe.

Talked to Don when i was trying BH209 with Win W209 primers and it hang fired. Ah ha! Drill out the flash hole with a #65 drill bit and you wont have any trouble. He was right too. I dont trust fed or w209s though. No poop in them.

You can use BH209 in a stock cva plug. Have my brother in laws rifle right here to bore coat and his still runs the factory flash hole. NEVER had a misfire in 3 cans worth of BH209 using CCI209M primers.

Im sorry to hear about your loss Tx.

FG/MD54

Again read and research badbowbender2 explanation of the gas pressures in in the various primers.

If you are talking regular Fed 209's they do produce less pressure than the a CCI-209M - no argument there. But if you are talking about Fed 209A's you better check with the military - they are designed and built to be the strongest gas producing primer on the market. The need to be to fulfill the military specifications that run from way below zero in temp to 100+ degrees in other theaters...

The Win W209 are not even in the class of the M or A - they were never designed to be - but if your plug is correct that is all you need...

Another thing you might consider call Cecil @ PR bullets and discuss with him the effects of hot 209 primers on the results you might see @ the target.. you would not believe me anyway.

I might mess with more after the hunting season, but I doubt it. I know all about the tight fitting sabot, and how to clean the breechplug, but I still have problems. I have been trying to shoot it all summer, I only have a few shots left in my jug. I used to Win209's but I switched to fed 209a to try and fix, you guessed it, a hangfire problem. I'll never understand why people go through so much effort to shoot BH209. My knight, my hawken, and my accura all shoot triple seven without a hiccup, without machining anyting. I know that it is somewhat dirtier (not nearly as much as it is made out to be..) and the occasional crud ring does suck (kleanbore primers take care of that), but I don't have to worry about having a pop.......BANG when I'm hunting. BH209 has even been rusting barrels! Maybe next year I'll try drilling out my plug and everything, but this year I'm sticking with what works.

Already have discussed it with Don. CCI 209M is basically all they use.

Its not a fuss, its actually just as simple as installing a cci 209m primer

BH209 will rust/corrode if left for a LONG period of time in a humid place, thats why Don recommended that i... We. Run an oiled patch down before putting it away dirty.

Ive been using regular cci's in the Hunterbolt as it seems to be a touch bit more accurate in that rifle with blackhorn.

But enough of the pissing match. I offered my simple solution so whether or not anyone wants to try it, thats all up to you. I will keep on using factory plugs or plugs with a .035 flash hole and keep using ol reliable cci 209m primers.