How much powder to use? (Pyrodex Results page 6)
06-17-2009, 07:45 AM
#31
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: How much powder to use?
Longer bullets need a faster rate of twist to put the proper spin on them to stabilize them so they fly true...Round ball barrels have a slower rate of twist...
btw...I've been killing deer with round balls since the mid-70s...Don't let anyone tell you they aren't effective...My first flintlock was a .45, I used 75grs of FFF Goex and killed a bunch of deer with it...
I only made a .54 when I had an encounter with a bear, but that's another story...
If you are stuck on conicals, buy them and try that's the only true way to tell...
btw...I've been killing deer with round balls since the mid-70s...Don't let anyone tell you they aren't effective...My first flintlock was a .45, I used 75grs of FFF Goex and killed a bunch of deer with it...
I only made a .54 when I had an encounter with a bear, but that's another story...
If you are stuck on conicals, buy them and try that's the only true way to tell...
06-17-2009, 07:59 AM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 4,405
RE: How much powder to use?
Ok but will a body or shoulder shot with a round ball put a deer down? Well obviously it will, but is it any "less" effective than the conicals?
And with the conicals do you just pour the powder down then ram the conical down, nothin in between?
And with the conicals do you just pour the powder down then ram the conical down, nothin in between?
06-17-2009, 08:55 AM
#33
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Central Texas (Williamson Co.)
Posts: 128
My Italian Rifle...
Is an old FIE "Kentucky" rifle with the barrel chopped back to 19".
One thing I've noticed abt mine, is that the barrel is rough (still shooting it in).
Mine chews-up patches too, but not that bad. Also, I'm using less powder than you are using.
Only thing mine shoots really well are saboted slugs.
Does your bore seem rough? You might try a smaller ball/thicker patch.
The bore on mine used to lead-up with full-bore maxi's, so watch out for that if you go to bore sized lead slugs...
With maxi's etc. you use no patch, just seat the slug atop the charge and drop the hammer on a cap.
Good Luck!
BP
One thing I've noticed abt mine, is that the barrel is rough (still shooting it in).
Mine chews-up patches too, but not that bad. Also, I'm using less powder than you are using.
Only thing mine shoots really well are saboted slugs.
Does your bore seem rough? You might try a smaller ball/thicker patch.
The bore on mine used to lead-up with full-bore maxi's, so watch out for that if you go to bore sized lead slugs...
With maxi's etc. you use no patch, just seat the slug atop the charge and drop the hammer on a cap.
Good Luck!
BP
06-17-2009, 08:57 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: How much powder to use?
Ok...here is a history lesson...
I live in central NC...In 1750 a young fellamoved down here from Pennsylvania with his mom and dad and brothers and sisters...During that decade thousands of newcomers moved here from that area...Salisbury, NC became a major trading center, just like St Louis would become in the 1830s...
The main export from this area was deer hides, over 100,000 per year from Salisbury alone...
Conicals would come around in the decade before the Civil War in the 1850s...All those deer were killed with a flintlock rifle and a round ball...The 17 year old that moved down here was Daniel Boone...He died in his sleep in Missouri in 1820, he was 85 years old and never shot a conical...
The first deer I killed with my .45 was hit in the shoulder blade, the ball went through that blade, through the spine, through the off blade and was caught like a baseball by the hide on the other side...The deer dropped...
A conical is slower so it will mushroom less...My brother used to used a Buffalo Bullet conical with 90grs of powder...My deer shot with the .45 in the lungs fell quicker than his shot with the .50 and a conical...He was plowing through, my balls were flattening...
A .50 caliber ball with 70-80grs of Goex FFF will kill any deer or black bear that walks...
Now...The guys that make and sell all the other stuff that some buy for muzzleloading will tell you different...They're making money on this stuff...
I live in central NC...In 1750 a young fellamoved down here from Pennsylvania with his mom and dad and brothers and sisters...During that decade thousands of newcomers moved here from that area...Salisbury, NC became a major trading center, just like St Louis would become in the 1830s...
The main export from this area was deer hides, over 100,000 per year from Salisbury alone...
Conicals would come around in the decade before the Civil War in the 1850s...All those deer were killed with a flintlock rifle and a round ball...The 17 year old that moved down here was Daniel Boone...He died in his sleep in Missouri in 1820, he was 85 years old and never shot a conical...
The first deer I killed with my .45 was hit in the shoulder blade, the ball went through that blade, through the spine, through the off blade and was caught like a baseball by the hide on the other side...The deer dropped...
A conical is slower so it will mushroom less...My brother used to used a Buffalo Bullet conical with 90grs of powder...My deer shot with the .45 in the lungs fell quicker than his shot with the .50 and a conical...He was plowing through, my balls were flattening...
A .50 caliber ball with 70-80grs of Goex FFF will kill any deer or black bear that walks...
Now...The guys that make and sell all the other stuff that some buy for muzzleloading will tell you different...They're making money on this stuff...
06-17-2009, 09:00 AM
#35
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2,445
RE: How much powder to use?
I have no experience with roundballs, but I'd aim to miss the nearside shoulderblade. I'll bet someone will testify that roundballs will penetrate even if you do hit the shoulder. I'm sure they are effective enough if driven with a good charge and the range is reasonable, say under 100 yds.
Conicals can be loaded directly over the powder. Some guys use felt wads under the bullet, and there can be a benefit to accuracy. All depends on the load/bullet/gun combination.
I have a T/C Renegade in 54 Cal. and I shoot 435 gr Maxiballs over 100 gr Pyrodex RS. No wad in between. Accuracy has always been very good within the limitations of my eyesight and the open sights.
Conicals can be loaded directly over the powder. Some guys use felt wads under the bullet, and there can be a benefit to accuracy. All depends on the load/bullet/gun combination.
I have a T/C Renegade in 54 Cal. and I shoot 435 gr Maxiballs over 100 gr Pyrodex RS. No wad in between. Accuracy has always been very good within the limitations of my eyesight and the open sights.
06-17-2009, 10:05 AM
#36
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: River Ridge, LA (Suburb of New Orleans)
Posts: 10,917
RE: How much powder to use?
If you want more weight than a ballthething that mayshoot OK in your slow twist barrel is the Hornady Pennsylvania Conical. They're hard to find though.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=730932
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=730932
06-17-2009, 12:10 PM
#38
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: How much powder to use?
While muzzleloading "experts" will tell you that the simple roundball in their opinion is not a lethal muzzleloading projectile able to humanly take deer size animals at anything over moderate distances, I would strongly argue the point.
On a different forum a person posted an experience of someone they knew that shot a moose with a roundball. It was out of a .54 caliber rifle with 90 grains of Pyrodex RS. This simple roundball was able to kill that moose. The amazing thing is the moose was over 150 yards away.
A person on this forum posted results of a .54 caliber roundball on elk last season. He harvested an elk at or near 140 yards. Again, a simple roundball was the thing that experts will warn you is not lethal.
I personally shot a deer at 80 yards with a .54 caliber roundball and 80 or 90 grains (my memory is not as clear as it used to be) many years ago. That ball passed through that deer, dropping it in its tracks and still had power enough to hit and knock down a second deer that was standing behind it. Not to bad for these non lethal projectiles.
The point I am trying to make is ... when placed where it should be, a roundball out of a muzzleloader will harvest any white tail deer you want to shoot. Just know your rifle, place your shot, and let the ball do the rest of the work for you.
I used to hunt only with roundball. I got fancy rifles that shoot conicals and sabots. But they will never match the number of deer I shot with a roundball.
If your rifle is a 1-66 twist, they do not shoot conicals too well many times. But they are roundball rifles twist. One of my favorite twists actually. Just practice with roundball. They are cheap to shoot, and lots of fun.
On a different forum a person posted an experience of someone they knew that shot a moose with a roundball. It was out of a .54 caliber rifle with 90 grains of Pyrodex RS. This simple roundball was able to kill that moose. The amazing thing is the moose was over 150 yards away.
A person on this forum posted results of a .54 caliber roundball on elk last season. He harvested an elk at or near 140 yards. Again, a simple roundball was the thing that experts will warn you is not lethal.
I personally shot a deer at 80 yards with a .54 caliber roundball and 80 or 90 grains (my memory is not as clear as it used to be) many years ago. That ball passed through that deer, dropping it in its tracks and still had power enough to hit and knock down a second deer that was standing behind it. Not to bad for these non lethal projectiles.
The point I am trying to make is ... when placed where it should be, a roundball out of a muzzleloader will harvest any white tail deer you want to shoot. Just know your rifle, place your shot, and let the ball do the rest of the work for you.
I used to hunt only with roundball. I got fancy rifles that shoot conicals and sabots. But they will never match the number of deer I shot with a roundball.
If your rifle is a 1-66 twist, they do not shoot conicals too well many times. But they are roundball rifles twist. One of my favorite twists actually. Just practice with roundball. They are cheap to shoot, and lots of fun.
06-17-2009, 01:19 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,425
RE: How much powder to use?
Bullet...Let me give you another example...Back in the mid 70s when I boought my .45 caliber flintlock I decided to see what kind of penetration I could get with a ball...I loaded up 75grs FFF, stuck a 2x4 in the ground and backed up 75 yards, the ball busted through the 2x4...We all know ribs and shoulder blades on a deer just aren't that tough...
Take that .50 out once you get it shooting and shoot some 2x4s, them come back and tell us if you think it will break down a shoulder...
I've also killed a few with a .40 and 50 grains of powder but that's not a legal load in many states...
Take that .50 out once you get it shooting and shoot some 2x4s, them come back and tell us if you think it will break down a shoulder...
I've also killed a few with a .40 and 50 grains of powder but that's not a legal load in many states...