TC Black diamond load
08-26-2008, 10:16 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 34
TC Black diamond load
Looking for some experienced TC Black Diamond 50 cal shooters. Need some load advice. I am not able to come up with an accurate load on this rifle (it's in stainless steel0. I've tried about everything in it. Sabots, soft lead etc. Tried different powder loads too. Nothing seems to give me conisistant accuracy. Funny thing is my much older TC Thunderhawk is a lot more accurate. I've used that for years and found the load quite easily.
I even sent the Black Diamond back to the company and they tested it. Of course they said it was shooting fine. Even got the quality manager at TC angry at me when I insisted it wasn't. I am looking for a load that will at least support 110 grains of powder. That is what my Thunderhawk has been able to use with extremely precise accuracy. I've harvested many deer and 3 elk with that rifle so want the range and muzzle volicity to at least rival the Thunderhawk.
Any help you can be would be greatly appreciated.
Steve
I even sent the Black Diamond back to the company and they tested it. Of course they said it was shooting fine. Even got the quality manager at TC angry at me when I insisted it wasn't. I am looking for a load that will at least support 110 grains of powder. That is what my Thunderhawk has been able to use with extremely precise accuracy. I've harvested many deer and 3 elk with that rifle so want the range and muzzle volicity to at least rival the Thunderhawk.
Any help you can be would be greatly appreciated.
Steve
08-26-2008, 10:57 AM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: TC Black diamond load
sss5358
I am sure that Cayugad will get here soon, but Dave has had a ton of experiance with a Black Diamond and my be able to help you right of the bat...
It it an XR or a regular BD? How many shots have you shot throught it? What was you most accurate load? even if it was not that accurate... might be a good starting place to begin to help.
Normally... and for most of the reports that I have read about the BD it is a really darn accurate rifle....
You said TC had it but do me a short favor look carefully at the crown on the barrel - does it appear to be uniform all the way around the muzzle? Maybe even compare to your other TC...
I am sure help will come...
I am sure that Cayugad will get here soon, but Dave has had a ton of experiance with a Black Diamond and my be able to help you right of the bat...
It it an XR or a regular BD? How many shots have you shot throught it? What was you most accurate load? even if it was not that accurate... might be a good starting place to begin to help.
Normally... and for most of the reports that I have read about the BD it is a really darn accurate rifle....
You said TC had it but do me a short favor look carefully at the crown on the barrel - does it appear to be uniform all the way around the muzzle? Maybe even compare to your other TC...
I am sure help will come...
08-26-2008, 12:21 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: TC Black diamond load
sss5358
They are normally an exceptionally accurate rifle, like Sabotloader said start with the crown,any dings or scrathes there will cause no end of proplem also check for ramrod wear, any problem with either of these and you will have to shorten and rebutton the barrel. I would check the sights especally if you are using a scope loose or stripped threads happen all the time and cause no end of trouble; also scopes get ruptured inside from recoil or get banged or dropped and that usually ruins them. Lee
They are normally an exceptionally accurate rifle, like Sabotloader said start with the crown,any dings or scrathes there will cause no end of proplem also check for ramrod wear, any problem with either of these and you will have to shorten and rebutton the barrel. I would check the sights especally if you are using a scope loose or stripped threads happen all the time and cause no end of trouble; also scopes get ruptured inside from recoil or get banged or dropped and that usually ruins them. Lee
08-26-2008, 01:28 PM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: TC Black diamond load
I have a Black Diamond XR in .50 caliber and mine is one that shoots about anything I want to put down it. As for the 110 grains you want, if 100 does it, I would not get concerned about 10 grains of powder.
For large game I would be shooting a 250 grain Shockwave with 100 grains of Pyrodex RS powder. Another large game load is a 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB with 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f.
For just plinking and having fun, I shoot about anything on the shelf.
How old is your powder?
Ever try pellets? *Mine shot 150 grains of pellets with a shockwave real well.
Are you swabbing the bore between shots? If not, that's your problem.
What primer are you shooting?
Is your barrel floating?
Other then that, my Black Diamond XR is a boring rifle as I load it and it shoots right were it always did.
Start your load work at 90 grains of loose powder and work up from there. I use Triple Se7en and Pyrodex RS for best results. When you get a tight group, then start pushing it until it falls out.
For large game I would be shooting a 250 grain Shockwave with 100 grains of Pyrodex RS powder. Another large game load is a 375 grain Buffalo Bullet SSB with 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f.
For just plinking and having fun, I shoot about anything on the shelf.
How old is your powder?
Ever try pellets? *Mine shot 150 grains of pellets with a shockwave real well.
Are you swabbing the bore between shots? If not, that's your problem.
What primer are you shooting?
Is your barrel floating?
Other then that, my Black Diamond XR is a boring rifle as I load it and it shoots right were it always did.
Start your load work at 90 grains of loose powder and work up from there. I use Triple Se7en and Pyrodex RS for best results. When you get a tight group, then start pushing it until it falls out.
08-27-2008, 08:33 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Washington State
Posts: 34
RE: TC Black diamond load
Thanks for the info.I appreciatthe responses. Here is what I have done:
I use triple 7 (fresh). Swab every 2nd round, use a peep site (exact same model I use on my Thunderhawk).Crown is fine, no dings and uniform, no ram rod wear, rifling is clear and not pittedand I have put roughly 175 to 200 rounds through this rifle. As for a load, the reason I bought the rifle is because TC advertised it would accurately use larger powder charges with a high pressure sabot. It is the BD model. I started my loads at 60 grains of powder and worked my way up. It was reasonably accurate with 360 grain sabots at 70 to 80 grains of powder(not as good as my Thunderhawk though). I attempt 100 grains and it is all over the page not tight grouping, no repeatability. I am shooting sabots because of the rifling and because (at least on my Thunderhawk) I can get a little flatter shooting bullet with more muzzle velocity. I use a musket cap for a primer. Since I am going after Elk I cannot really use a load at 250 grains. Washington has minimums and I am thinking that may be to low. I do use a lighter load (in my Thunderhawk) for deer. 280 grains sabot in 44 cal. But for Elk I use 360 grain Keith nose in 44 cal sabot from Precision in Canada. These sabots are not off the shelf sabots. Precision puts out an outstanding product of which several professional shooters have used to win many competitions.
I hunt in Washington state so no projectiles can have anything but pure lead in them and no scopes. As Cayagap suggests I'll try a buffalo bullet just to see what happens, 375 grains sounds good. I have not tried pellets but will give them a trytoo. Thinking also I may try to find a gun smith who can work on muzzle loaders. Have him inspect the crown as sabotloader suggests.My eye may not be detecting any problem when there may be. I'll recheck the sites as Lemoyne indicates too. Just to make sure I'll take it off re install and go from there.Some people think a pie plate pattern at 100 yards is OK. I don't. I want a much tighter repeatable pattern. If I wasn't already getting those kinds of results from my Thunderhawk I probably wouldn't be that concerned. I expect the Black Diamond to at least give me results as good as my 12 year Thundhawk and bought the black diamond to allow me explore heavier loads in bullets and larger powder charges to assure penetration and knock down power on elk. I am planning a moose hunt to Canada and the guide indicates we can use muzzle loaders so I would like to use the Black Diamond on the hunt next year if at all possible.
I appreciate your feed back and will let you know how things go. You have given me lots of great idea's. Perhaps it is just a lot of little things, but my patience is wearing thin (two years of work).I'll start getting serious about shooting here in about two weeks in preperation for October hunts.
Steve
I use triple 7 (fresh). Swab every 2nd round, use a peep site (exact same model I use on my Thunderhawk).Crown is fine, no dings and uniform, no ram rod wear, rifling is clear and not pittedand I have put roughly 175 to 200 rounds through this rifle. As for a load, the reason I bought the rifle is because TC advertised it would accurately use larger powder charges with a high pressure sabot. It is the BD model. I started my loads at 60 grains of powder and worked my way up. It was reasonably accurate with 360 grain sabots at 70 to 80 grains of powder(not as good as my Thunderhawk though). I attempt 100 grains and it is all over the page not tight grouping, no repeatability. I am shooting sabots because of the rifling and because (at least on my Thunderhawk) I can get a little flatter shooting bullet with more muzzle velocity. I use a musket cap for a primer. Since I am going after Elk I cannot really use a load at 250 grains. Washington has minimums and I am thinking that may be to low. I do use a lighter load (in my Thunderhawk) for deer. 280 grains sabot in 44 cal. But for Elk I use 360 grain Keith nose in 44 cal sabot from Precision in Canada. These sabots are not off the shelf sabots. Precision puts out an outstanding product of which several professional shooters have used to win many competitions.
I hunt in Washington state so no projectiles can have anything but pure lead in them and no scopes. As Cayagap suggests I'll try a buffalo bullet just to see what happens, 375 grains sounds good. I have not tried pellets but will give them a trytoo. Thinking also I may try to find a gun smith who can work on muzzle loaders. Have him inspect the crown as sabotloader suggests.My eye may not be detecting any problem when there may be. I'll recheck the sites as Lemoyne indicates too. Just to make sure I'll take it off re install and go from there.Some people think a pie plate pattern at 100 yards is OK. I don't. I want a much tighter repeatable pattern. If I wasn't already getting those kinds of results from my Thunderhawk I probably wouldn't be that concerned. I expect the Black Diamond to at least give me results as good as my 12 year Thundhawk and bought the black diamond to allow me explore heavier loads in bullets and larger powder charges to assure penetration and knock down power on elk. I am planning a moose hunt to Canada and the guide indicates we can use muzzle loaders so I would like to use the Black Diamond on the hunt next year if at all possible.
I appreciate your feed back and will let you know how things go. You have given me lots of great idea's. Perhaps it is just a lot of little things, but my patience is wearing thin (two years of work).I'll start getting serious about shooting here in about two weeks in preperation for October hunts.
Steve
08-27-2008, 09:07 AM
#7
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: TC Black diamond load
Washington demands an all lead projectile if memory serves me. The Buffalo Bullet SSB would be a good choice. Also mine will shoot conicals well. I have a scope on mine but that peep you have is interesting. Is that mounted where the rear sight goes?
I also swab between each shot normally unless I am shooting conicals out of it.
I also swab between each shot normally unless I am shooting conicals out of it.
08-27-2008, 09:48 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: TC Black diamond load
cayugad
Dave have you shot Bull Shops from your BD-XR? If so which bore size? I am thinking you have said the barrel on your BD is much the same barrel as my Omega... Does he BD have a QLA?
Does your barrel float or is solid in the stock?
He can use sabots but the projectile needs to be all lead... I have never shot or even seen the SSB, but I am guessing that is a sabot/lead bullet?
If I remember correctly hecan shoot powerbelts - all lead version. Does Harvester produce and all lead variety of the powerbelt? Obvious I have no interest on PB's so I have never looked this info up.
Dave have you shot Bull Shops from your BD-XR? If so which bore size? I am thinking you have said the barrel on your BD is much the same barrel as my Omega... Does he BD have a QLA?
Does your barrel float or is solid in the stock?
He can use sabots but the projectile needs to be all lead... I have never shot or even seen the SSB, but I am guessing that is a sabot/lead bullet?
If I remember correctly hecan shoot powerbelts - all lead version. Does Harvester produce and all lead variety of the powerbelt? Obvious I have no interest on PB's so I have never looked this info up.
08-27-2008, 09:57 AM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: TC Black diamond load
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
cayugad
Dave have you shot Bull Shops from your BD-XR? If so which bore size? I am thinking you have said the barrel on your BD is much the same barrel as my Omega... Does he BD have a QLA?
Does your barrel float or is solid in the stock?
He can use sabots but the projectile needs to be all lead... I have never shot or even seen the SSB, but I am guessing that is a sabot/lead bullet?
If I remember correctly hecan shoot powerbelts - all lead version. Does Harvester produce and all lead variety of the powerbelt? Obvious I have no interest on PB's so I have never looked this info up.
cayugad
Dave have you shot Bull Shops from your BD-XR? If so which bore size? I am thinking you have said the barrel on your BD is much the same barrel as my Omega... Does he BD have a QLA?
Does your barrel float or is solid in the stock?
He can use sabots but the projectile needs to be all lead... I have never shot or even seen the SSB, but I am guessing that is a sabot/lead bullet?
If I remember correctly hecan shoot powerbelts - all lead version. Does Harvester produce and all lead variety of the powerbelt? Obvious I have no interest on PB's so I have never looked this info up.
[hr]
I never shot the Bull Shop but I have shot the .503 No Excuses out of the BD and they did great.
Yes the Black Diamond XR has a QLA but it has never bothered my accuracy.It also is a free floating barrel whichwas their big selling point there for a while.
The Buffalo Bullet SSB is a 375 grain all lead Spitzer point with a slight hollow tip. Very accuracy, but very heavy. I shoot them with 100 grains of powder, but I person I talk to with the same rifle hunts elk with them using 110 grains of Triple Se7en 2f powder.
I don't know what Harvester produces for a powerbelt type bullet. I will have to see if the BD likes some Bull Shop .503 conicals in 460 grain. That would be good elk medicine.
08-27-2008, 10:45 AM
#10
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: TC Black diamond load
cayugad
See that is wat I am thinking... I set my son-in-law up with the short 24" Remington 700ML and .503/460's for his elk hunt and even deer... they will certainly do the job,if the are able to keep their targets under the 150 yard range.... They will work well beyond that also but Trevor does not do enough shooting to work much beyond that range -oops forgot gotta be open sites..
I don't know what Harvester produces for a powerbelt type bullet. I will have to see if the BD likes some Bull Shop .503 conicals in 460 grain. That would be good elk medicine.
