Been thinking, when I started shooting my new englander, I was using an homemade shooting rest made with stuff around the house. I was hitting the target everytime. then I switched to and mtm site and clean rest and that is where it all went to hell.

I also have some stoney point bags too I started with. I do very little 100yrd shooting because of where I hunt I may have as much as 75yrds. but the little I have done. the mtm with my knight all over the place, same bullet with the homemade rest 4in group, same bullet with bags 2 to 4in group.

switch to the mtm to save my back.

so my plan after I get my new englander fixed. is to take all 3 rest and do 5 shot groups off of each of them. and test my theory.

Thoughts?

Sounds very reasonable. I do my best shooting off sand bags or even my fence line. My rifle rest is ok but its just to light weight and not very comfortable to shoot off.

I'll tell you what corey - you just proved my suspicion. I also have an MTM rest. I've always shot off a 3' x 4' folding table using and adjustable front rest with a sand bag and sandbags for the rear and shot well. I thought the MTM would be a neater, one-piece solution to carrying that 5 gallon bucket of sandbags.
When I started using it I was wondering why my groups were so large - particularly from my normally tack driving rifles. I went back to shooting off the sandbags and back to shooting normally. I only use my MTM as a rest to hold my guns for cleaning or whatever. It mostly collect dust in my reloading room because I usually use my Caldwell gun vise for cleaning or working on my guns.

I do feel the rest makes a big difference but I think it is more in the way the rest is addressed. When you shoot off sand bags (at least I do) I find myself much flatter to the table then when I shoot of a Caldwell bag or rest, where I am sitting more in an upright position. So when you start changing the manner in your hold, it makes sense that the groups should change also.

I use a light weight Caldwell rest and simply let the rifle kick me and move me around. It is the best why I know how to make things back to the same. I have spots on the rest and the table where parts of my forearms and elbows all need to be in order to shoot from the same position each and every time.

I have some opinions about rests, I won the IL state bench rest round ball championship one year with a couple sand bags a rice bag and an old ironing board. There are a couple things to look out for if you have a soft rest of any kind that has spring to it the pressure on the stock will not be the same there for it wil shoot different enlargeing your group. if you dont use a rear sand bag or good subsitute it will cost you in accuracy,One other thing especally with iron sights hold on a line like the bottom edge of a bull[ if you use a 6inch bull at 100yds it will put you 3 inches high which almost always gives max PBR and holding on a line like that gives an exact point of aim. The finer you aim the finer you will shoot. Lee

I figured, I could look into this. could do this test at 100 yrds with my knight. I know what bullets like to shoot.

duh, I am on an range session break until I get back from FL.

Hey all! I haven't been on for a while. I am not sure if my rest is MTM but its the same red plastic base that Frontier showed a picture of months back. Anyway, I got away from it. I found the forward rubber arm didnt grip the stock constistantly. I found myself trying to adjust accordingly and that doesn't work. I was canting left and right. I went to bagsat cayugad's suggestion and it makes a big difference. You dont have anything to fight with against the stock and you setup naturally. Hope this makes sense. Just my 2 cents.