A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
01-11-2008, 01:45 PM
#23
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
I would not worry about what anyone thinks but with any longer range shot on game,one needsto expect that opinions will be wide and will vary. I also don't really see this as ammunition for the anti's either traditionalists or PETA loving types.
For the most part in the areas of the countrywhere the most deer are harvested, the longest shot opportunities are typically not more than 150 yards. Most all of which are much less like in the 30-100 yard category. I'd bet money the average is about 50 yards.
In Michigan (one of if not the highest harvest states for deer) in 2006 our friends at the MDNR estimate 45,600 deer were harvested. Of that 10% or 45,600 with Muzzleloader of any type. I know Michigan terrain quite well in both the LP and UP and there simply is not that many shot opportunities beyond 200 yards on either private or public land. There are, but not very many.
In states where theywish to limit the range of shot/kills, then really they should limit or prohibit the optics used not the ML type.
With open sights or 1x optics, most folks will not even think about a shot much beyond 100 yards regardless of the type of ML used. At least I would not.
In Idaho (sabotloader correct me if I am off), you can still hunt with an ML and take 400/yard kills during their regular firearm seasonif you and your ML have the skill and ability.
You just cannot carry a scoped ML during their ML season. Which I think really should have stopped at limiting the optics versus dictating a open ignition percussion or flint. Theirissue against inlineswas really against the longer range capability as supposed reliability. However I rarely have relibility issues with any of my sidelocks, so I am not sure what they where thinking.
However, the Idaho ML rules don't seem to prohibit creedmore and diopter open sights so really you can get right back to the 250+ yards with a sidelock, faster riflingand a bore sized conical if you were so minded.
I have seen first hand a marksman with Pedesoli Mortimer Caplockin .45 Whitworth setup with a really nice creedmore/diopter sight and he can shoot well inside of 6" all day long at 200 yards from a benchrest. I've also seen this same shooter/rifle shoot much farther on out to 800 yards with good enough accuracy to harvest deer. He does not hunt game though, he shoots target only.
I'f I ever move to or hunt inIdaho (a distinct possibility to buy land not move), I wil make sure I show up with a .45 Whitworth caplock and a creedmore sight that I have alot of practice with.
M2C
Tahquamenon
For the most part in the areas of the countrywhere the most deer are harvested, the longest shot opportunities are typically not more than 150 yards. Most all of which are much less like in the 30-100 yard category. I'd bet money the average is about 50 yards.
In Michigan (one of if not the highest harvest states for deer) in 2006 our friends at the MDNR estimate 45,600 deer were harvested. Of that 10% or 45,600 with Muzzleloader of any type. I know Michigan terrain quite well in both the LP and UP and there simply is not that many shot opportunities beyond 200 yards on either private or public land. There are, but not very many.
In states where theywish to limit the range of shot/kills, then really they should limit or prohibit the optics used not the ML type.
With open sights or 1x optics, most folks will not even think about a shot much beyond 100 yards regardless of the type of ML used. At least I would not.
In Idaho (sabotloader correct me if I am off), you can still hunt with an ML and take 400/yard kills during their regular firearm seasonif you and your ML have the skill and ability.
You just cannot carry a scoped ML during their ML season. Which I think really should have stopped at limiting the optics versus dictating a open ignition percussion or flint. Theirissue against inlineswas really against the longer range capability as supposed reliability. However I rarely have relibility issues with any of my sidelocks, so I am not sure what they where thinking.
However, the Idaho ML rules don't seem to prohibit creedmore and diopter open sights so really you can get right back to the 250+ yards with a sidelock, faster riflingand a bore sized conical if you were so minded.
I have seen first hand a marksman with Pedesoli Mortimer Caplockin .45 Whitworth setup with a really nice creedmore/diopter sight and he can shoot well inside of 6" all day long at 200 yards from a benchrest. I've also seen this same shooter/rifle shoot much farther on out to 800 yards with good enough accuracy to harvest deer. He does not hunt game though, he shoots target only.
I'f I ever move to or hunt inIdaho (a distinct possibility to buy land not move), I wil make sure I show up with a .45 Whitworth caplock and a creedmore sight that I have alot of practice with.
M2C
Tahquamenon
01-11-2008, 02:08 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
Tahquamenon
True....
True, it has to have a pivoting hammer, open ignition - percussion/flint ignition, loose powder or sub, no smokless, all lead conicals .428 or larger or PRB, no PowerBelts, No glass optics.
It would in most cases but - it was a matter that the inline does not look right during a ML season so they were banned.
I really believe that was the main issue + looks to the well organized Trad clubs in the state.
I have stated this before but there is nothing that an Idaho legal inline of the past could do any better than I can do with the Renegade sidelocks that I own... + there is nothing wrong with switching barrels to a GM-LRH - cause it looks OK I guess.
They do not
The new rules also removed the use of sabots and believe it or not Power Belts which are made in Nampa, ID, but have the plastic gas seal...
Changes back are being discussed - but have not heard a word on what they are going to be... I have a feeling you are going to have to declare what you are going to hunt with and be limited to that... Archery - Centerfire - Muzzleloader. We do have a clause for "short range" seasons that does include ML's but very few seasons....
The new regs will be out in black & white April 1...
One other thing there are a lot of hunting areas in this state 300/400 yard shots are quite common... very seldom up here in the north but in the canyons and the deserts of southern Idaho they are there.
Not a bad thought - my grandfather always said "buying land is a super investment they are not making much anymore."
mike
In Idaho (sabotloader correct me if I am off), you can still hunt with an ML and take 400/yard kills during their regular firearm seasonif you and your ML have the skill and ability.
You just cannot carry a scoped ML during their ML season.
Which I think really should have stopped at limiting the optics versus dictating a open ignition percussion or flint.
Theirissue against inlineswas really against the longer range capability as supposed reliability.
However I rarely have relibility issues with any of my sidelocks, so I am not sure what they where thinking.
However, the Idaho ML rules don't seem to prohibit creedmore and diopter open sights so really you can get right back to the 250+ yards with a sidelock, faster riflingand a bore sized conical if you were so minded.
The new rules also removed the use of sabots and believe it or not Power Belts which are made in Nampa, ID, but have the plastic gas seal...
Changes back are being discussed - but have not heard a word on what they are going to be... I have a feeling you are going to have to declare what you are going to hunt with and be limited to that... Archery - Centerfire - Muzzleloader. We do have a clause for "short range" seasons that does include ML's but very few seasons....
The new regs will be out in black & white April 1...
One other thing there are a lot of hunting areas in this state 300/400 yard shots are quite common... very seldom up here in the north but in the canyons and the deserts of southern Idaho they are there.
I'f I ever move to or hunt inIdaho (a distinct possibility to buy land not move),
mike
01-11-2008, 02:28 PM
#26
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
FG
True... but they have a plastic squirt - that is not traditional... + they must be 10/1000 of the bore diameter... length does not matter, which really doesn't matter to me because the BullShops are such a better bullet anyway and they are traditional...
I thought you can use an all lead projecile in idaho? Powerbelts are available in all lead or copper.
01-11-2008, 06:24 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
Head001 -- It is not true that the sound gets there first. My bullets are supersonic to just beyond 400 yds.
wabi -- You are correct, sighting systems are the real range limiter, but the trad's are after the "evil" inline, no matter what sights are on them. Forget that it's a cosmetic issue, that would be using your brain too much for them.
As for possible ranges in Michigan, it depends where you are. In the open farmlands of southern Michigan, pretty much everything is gridded out in fencelines and ditches 1/4 or 1/2 mile apart. There are PLENTY of opportunities for long shots. That being said, despite being set up to shoot long the majority of my shots are still under 150 yds -- this year was a notable exception. That is also the type of terrain I was hunting this year. Not everyone has permission to hunt a nice big woods!
wabi -- You are correct, sighting systems are the real range limiter, but the trad's are after the "evil" inline, no matter what sights are on them. Forget that it's a cosmetic issue, that would be using your brain too much for them.
As for possible ranges in Michigan, it depends where you are. In the open farmlands of southern Michigan, pretty much everything is gridded out in fencelines and ditches 1/4 or 1/2 mile apart. There are PLENTY of opportunities for long shots. That being said, despite being set up to shoot long the majority of my shots are still under 150 yds -- this year was a notable exception. That is also the type of terrain I was hunting this year. Not everyone has permission to hunt a nice big woods!
01-11-2008, 06:27 PM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location:
Posts: 1,408
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
Underclocked -- Well, I think I have one target left up in the gun room that was my "challenge target". I shot 2 groups of 2 shots each on a day when there was a highly variable wind 15-25 mph straight across the range. I wanted to see if I could read the wind well enough, I figured if I could shoot decent under conditions much worse than I'd ever shoot at a deer I would be good to go. Without looking for it, I believe the first group was 5" and the other was 6" horizontal spread and not much vertical. Not too shabby for more than 2 feet of potential wind drift.
I don't think I saved any of the others. I should. Next time I shoot one I'll post it up.
I don't think I saved any of the others. I should. Next time I shoot one I'll post it up.
01-11-2008, 08:15 PM
#30
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 7
RE: A good day - 20min and a hot barrel
I have just one question for you guys from da UP, 'Escanaba In The MoonLight', true story yes or no...haha
Seriously though, thats a good story. I think being able to know all of your equipment that well, your gun, ammunition, powder etc and most importantly to know yourself that well is what its all about. Putting in some serious range time to figure it all out and on top of the shooting skills, you also had the hunting skills nessesary to accomplish it.
Congrats one the little one, thats a cool picture too! I have a four month old little girl and she has more cammo clothing than I do, and her favorite show is one of my hunting dvds. The wife will come home from work and find us sitting there watching hunting and just shakes her head...lol. Its great.
Seriously though, thats a good story. I think being able to know all of your equipment that well, your gun, ammunition, powder etc and most importantly to know yourself that well is what its all about. Putting in some serious range time to figure it all out and on top of the shooting skills, you also had the hunting skills nessesary to accomplish it.
Congrats one the little one, thats a cool picture too! I have a four month old little girl and she has more cammo clothing than I do, and her favorite show is one of my hunting dvds. The wife will come home from work and find us sitting there watching hunting and just shakes her head...lol. Its great.