Got a new Savage, want to shoot AP powder. I am shooting 245 Barnes BT. I bought MMP-12 sabots and changed out all of the yellow sabots that came with the Barnes. The MMP-12 is easy to load but snug, The yellow sabots that came with Barnes are tight but very useable. Any Suggestions? Which would you start with?

You will probably see poor performance if you try to use an hph12 sabot with a Barnes boattail bullet . The yellow sabot is specially made for the boatail bullet. (the slits don't extend to the sabot base as far as the hph 12) The barnes boattail bullets are marketed by Knight as well and they offer them in a blue easy load sabot if the yellow sabot is loading too tightly. Maybe this will help.

Ideaman

I am neither a Barnes person nor a Savage shooter, but I have a couple of thoughts..

If the Barnes bullets were/are boat tails they may not work to well in the HPH-12...

Second MMP suggests that Savage shooters should use the older MMP black sabot to prevent blow by...

I've tried the same thing with the same projectile and couldn't even hit paper when I switched to the non-packaged sabot. The boattailed spitfire needs that special sabot. If you look closely at the barnes sabotyou'll see that the petals are not cut down to the base. If the barnes sabot fits then you're golden. Chances are that after 100+ rounds they'll fit even better. This was the case for me. Tom

Smokeless must not be legal where you live. Anyway, the Barnes bullets are usually really tight, so if you are having problems MMP makes .45/.50 sabots that have different petal thicknesses.

Look here for more info:

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

Scroll down about halfway and it'll give you the assembled outer dimensions of the various sabot. You might want to try the HPH24.

Mike

driftrider

The problem being none of those sabots support a boat-tail bullet... they are made for flat full base...

Oh, yeah..missed that!

I've only tried the flat based MZ's, which shoot well but are very expensive. I'm sure MMP makes a BT sabot. I remember seeing one once. But in that case I'd say just use the sabots that cane with the bullets. I believe that the Barnes ML bullets come with MMP sabots anyway. Try them and see if they shoot well. The sabot should fit pretty snug for a good seal and accuracy. I'd only look for a looser sabot fit if it took an 800lb gorrilla to ram the bullet home.

Ideaman,

Why aren't you going to use smokeless powder? If it's legal in your state to hunt with, I'd highly recommend AA XMR-5744. My "pet load" is a 3.1cc Lee Dipper (41gr) of 5744 under a 250gr .452cal Hornady XTP. Shoots 1.5" groups all day and doesn't beat the shot out of you. I worked it up for my wife to shoot, but I found that I like it alot myself. It's a good 150 yard load, which is all I need around here.

Mike

Like mentioned the MMP sabot is not made to accomidate a BT design bullet. If the yellow sabot is too tight then it may cause sabot failure which will result in flyers (my experience with yellow barnes sabots and my 10II Savage). If not to tight it may work in your rifle, the only way to know for sure is try. If you are wanting to use the BT bullet and need the MMP sabot you'll need to try a subbase..no gaurantees that'll work but your last option as to my knowledge MMP does not offer a boattail design sabot.

How easy does the HPH12 load exactly? I have never experienced a savage where a larger diameter was required, however have seen that some shot better with HPH24, etc which are thinner walled with small OD then the HPH12with .451-452's. Too loose isn't good though, you may experience hang fires or irratic groupings. IME with the savage you want some back pressure when seating but it shouldn't be a fight to get it down the tube - seems to be a real fine line with this ML (more so then any other I have experienced

Personally I'd start out with either a 250 xtp or 250gr sw/sst with MMP sabots, as this is what the gun was designed upon. The 250xtp coupled with short black mmp sabot is what is used to test in the savage factory for every 10II that crosses the line. My savage shoots really well with these bullets under a variety of smokeless powders/charges (have not tried any subs). I recently found out my gun also likes .250gr MZ expanders with the HPH 12 sabot, out to 200 yards its accuracy is very close with my current 250sst/HPH24 combo. I have deceided to give it a try next weekend when I attempt to fill my remaining mulie doe tag, just to compare how it performs to the SST.

Best of luck

Yes, drop the APP and go smokeless with AA 5744, 44g, Parker Ballistic Extreme 275g and Winchester Primer:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker_Ballistic_Extreme_275g_2007_09_03_AA5744_44 g_WinchesterKleenborePrimer_default%20sabot.jpg

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker_Ballistic_Extreme_275g_2007_07_21_AA5744_44 g_WinchesterPrimer_default%20sabot.jpg

I did get a better group with TC SW 300g:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/TC_Shockwave_300g_2007_06_02_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_default%20sabot.jpg

I too wanted to shot Barnes also, TMZ 290g was myfirst choice, but it shot like this:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Barnes%20TMZ_290g_2007_06_15_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_supplied_sabot.jpg

also tried the Knight Ultimate Slam, which is the boat tail that your shooting:
http://www.the-gleasons.com/Barnes%20TMZ_290g_2007_06_15_AA5744_44g_FederalPri mer_supplied_sabot.jpg

To see how PBE will perform, see this thread:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/Parker%20BE%20TC%20SW%20shot%20into%20ballistic%20 gel.pdf

A lot of folks over on Doug's Savage Forum have trouble shooting Barnes (seems to be a preferred bullet by a lot of shooters), they have to do a whole bunch of things to get them to shoot, including sub-bases, and kurling. I didn't want to go to all that trouble, so chose a diffent bullet.
Chap Gleason