UC

I think I do but their results are not always good - I dig up the pics...

But back to the Gold Dots - here is a picture of a bisected GD. You can see in the left hand picture the "cooper dot" that stops, for the most part, the expansion of this bonded bullet. I do not have a pic of a 250 but this "copper dot" is much farther down into the bullet at the bottom of the really deep hollow point. With the deep HP they have been able to lengthen the bullet which really helps in a sabot load.

UC

Here is a pic of Hornady 300 grain XTP's (left) and Gold Dots recovered from the saturated clay water bar. The water bar was @ 100 yards.

Not all Honady's stripped the copper of the lead but most did. Here is a pic...

Thanks Mike, looks like the Gold Dots are the way to go. Naturally I have a bunch of the others on the shelf.

Excellant pics, also some very good explainations. This is a very good thread, I hope the people that are new to the sport are following it. It would be good to hear from some of them,especally if they have any questions or comments. Lee

I know I am keeping taps on this thread. it is making me rethink on xtps, I guess after hunting season, I will be doing a lot of load test.

Good,part of the reason for doing this is to increase the understanding and capabilities of the people that have not had the oppertunities that some of use have had. Lee

It looks like what it comes down to is good penetration coupled with proper/controlled expansion. Both seem to be pretty much equally important. If the bullet mushrooms to the size of a football but only penetrates 2 inches, no good. Or, if the bullet hits and doesn't expand any at all and does very little damage, no good either. So, mushrooming is good but its only 1 part of theequation. If the bullet gradually expands and goes through the vitalsand does adequate damage then we've got a winner. And, from the looks of the photos and the stories, we've got a bunch of winners out there. Thanks for all the input.This thread just gets better and better, Greg

This might start a bit of disscussion, but I am going to comment on the reason I think different people have different results from the same bullet.
A lot of us strive for a certain amount of accuray,one of the things we do is to run the powder ladder with different kindsand amounts of powder.
There for we end up with a wide range of velocity as a result, we know these bullets were designed for certain velocity ranges but we like to ignore the fact.
Now for the part we will proably disagree on, some people use loads that won't open the bullet[cause them to mushroom ] One fellow used 75 gr of RS and shot one hole groups at 100yds; "I told him that good accuracy but NOT a deer load" He did not agree and shot a nice buck with it they had to track the buck witha dog on a leash for around a mile. Now we come to why, he was shooting a Shock Wave one of my favorite bullets, but they are designed for around 2000 fps , 75 gr will giveyou about 1400 fps with Goex FF that will barely open a250 gr XTP and a 230 or 240 gr XTP would be better.
Now this is just my opinion so fel free to put your own in here , but just for fun I will give those interested a few minimum for a few bullets.
XTP 230gr- 1400fps
XTP 240gr- 1500fps
XTP 250gr- 1500fps
with Gold Dots I would add 100fps to this
Shock Waves a minimum of 1850 fps
And please remember that the max velocity is a seoerate discussion to much can be worse than to little.
Lee

LEE

I gotta tell right off the top I have never thought about the low end of the spectrum - because I, asan X centerfire shooter, am always trying to achieve max velocity & energy with max accuracy... but with in thatstatementin mind also remember I am not hung up on shooting tight groups on paper. I am, although, really hung up on one shot (the first) going where my POI is+/- 3"@ a100, and it really nice when all shots do that - I think I have achieved that will all my ML's and certainly my CF's.

For shooting minimum velocities I guess I would refer back to manufacturers guidelines... although when you do this you might find that you are shooting aparticular bullet well beyond it's listed capabilties for the gun that it designed to be shot in.... case in point a 200 grain XTP - performs at velociies well beyond what Hornady listed max...

Agreed, and some of the people that push xtp's hard do have a problem with them coming apart quick.
They are not as bad as pb's that way but they do have some limitations that give people like you and I that prefer the high end second thoughts about them. For instance my System One likes the 230 gr XTP and 150gr RS and I have to be very careful about hiting them om the rid cage only because it will penatrate about 4 inches and then it litterally blows up the whole inside of the chest of a deer has little bitty pieces in it, but with a good hit just behind the foreleg it is always a bang flop; the problem is I have had to pass on some good deer because of its limitations so I dont use it any more. Lee