It looks like what it comes down to is good penetration coupled with proper/controlled expansion. Both seem to be pretty much equally important. If the bullet mushrooms to the size of a football but only penetrates 2 inches, no good. Or, if the bullet hits and doesn't expand any at all and does very little damage, no good either. So, mushrooming is good but its only 1 part of theequation. If the bullet gradually expands and goes through the vitalsand does adequate damage then we've got a winner. And, from the looks of the photos and the stories, we've got a bunch of winners out there. Thanks for all the input.This thread just gets better and better, Greg