Bullet Review
10-21-2007 | 04:54 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Bullet Review
UC
I do believe you are right the older black MMP's with shorter petals were built basically for the overbore Knights - so they probably are equivelent to 12's if not a wee bit thicker.
OK - i forgot I had a speed loader here in the house with a .451/260 grain nosler and a HPH-24 sabot... just put the digital mic on it .505 .5055 .506
I do believe you are right the older black MMP's with shorter petals were built basically for the overbore Knights - so they probably are equivelent to 12's if not a wee bit thicker.
OK - i forgot I had a speed loader here in the house with a .451/260 grain nosler and a HPH-24 sabot... just put the digital mic on it .505 .5055 .506
10-21-2007 | 06:48 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
RE: Bullet Review
Okay, today I finally made it out to the range and got a chance to shoot. I was only getting to shoot the SST 250 and at first I was pretty excited. After my session I am about to give up on ML. I would have a 1 inch group of 2 bullets and then get a flier. Then it would start to group on the other bullet (flier). I tried the fff 777 and also the Goex FFF. 2" high with 777 and 2" low with Goex. Both of the powders I would just be all over the place. Could it be the bullet or maybe my set up.
I am shooting a Winchester Apex Stainless with a 4-16 x 56mm Millet Mil-dot scope. I shoot around 85 to 90 grains of powder with the 777. I tried 80 to 125 grains of Goex fff. I swab between shots with rubbing alcohol along with I floated the barrel. I am so frustrated and I felt if I bought a 200 dollar scope I would not have a problem with the scope. Now I don't know and wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I am planning on getting some Pryodex Select tomorrow to see if that helps. What I used before and seemed to work a lot better, however before I was shooting conical bullets. I know the shop up town has some because just the other day I was in there and saw it on the self. Just hoped the Goex would work.
I really don't think it is the gun because I checked it over pretty good and it seems to be just fine as far as the barrel. I read a post earlier how a guy found out the QL was a little off and he did something to the QL to straighten it out. After he did this it shot lights out but not sure how to accomplish this. I am lost in my quest to get my ML shooting the way I would like it too. I guess I just don't want any fliers.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
River Rat
I am shooting a Winchester Apex Stainless with a 4-16 x 56mm Millet Mil-dot scope. I shoot around 85 to 90 grains of powder with the 777. I tried 80 to 125 grains of Goex fff. I swab between shots with rubbing alcohol along with I floated the barrel. I am so frustrated and I felt if I bought a 200 dollar scope I would not have a problem with the scope. Now I don't know and wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I am planning on getting some Pryodex Select tomorrow to see if that helps. What I used before and seemed to work a lot better, however before I was shooting conical bullets. I know the shop up town has some because just the other day I was in there and saw it on the self. Just hoped the Goex would work.
I really don't think it is the gun because I checked it over pretty good and it seems to be just fine as far as the barrel. I read a post earlier how a guy found out the QL was a little off and he did something to the QL to straighten it out. After he did this it shot lights out but not sure how to accomplish this. I am lost in my quest to get my ML shooting the way I would like it too. I guess I just don't want any fliers.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
River Rat
10-21-2007 | 07:05 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Bullet Review
ORIGINAL: River Rat
Okay, today I finally made it out to the range and got a chance to shoot. I was only getting to shoot the SST 250 and at first I was pretty excited. After my session I am about to give up on ML. I would have a 1 inch group of 2 bullets and then get a flier. Then it would start to group on the other bullet (flier). I tried the fff 777 and also the Goex FFF. 2" high with 777 and 2" low with Goex. Both of the powders I would just be all over the place. Could it be the bullet or maybe my set up.
I am shooting a Winchester Apex Stainless with a 4-16 x 56mm Millet Mil-dot scope. I shoot around 85 to 90 grains of powder with the 777. I tried 80 to 125 grains of Goex fff. I swab between shots with rubbing alcohol along with I floated the barrel. I am so frustrated and I felt if I bought a 200 dollar scope I would not have a problem with the scope. Now I don't know and wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I am planning on getting some Pryodex Select tomorrow to see if that helps. What I used before and seemed to work a lot better, however before I was shooting conical bullets. I know the shop up town has some because just the other day I was in there and saw it on the self. Just hoped the Goex would work.
I really don't think it is the gun because I checked it over pretty good and it seems to be just fine as far as the barrel. I read a post earlier how a guy found out the QL was a little off and he did something to the QL to straighten it out. After he did this it shot lights out but not sure how to accomplish this. I am lost in my quest to get my ML shooting the way I would like it too. I guess I just don't want any fliers.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
River Rat
Okay, today I finally made it out to the range and got a chance to shoot. I was only getting to shoot the SST 250 and at first I was pretty excited. After my session I am about to give up on ML. I would have a 1 inch group of 2 bullets and then get a flier. Then it would start to group on the other bullet (flier). I tried the fff 777 and also the Goex FFF. 2" high with 777 and 2" low with Goex. Both of the powders I would just be all over the place. Could it be the bullet or maybe my set up.
I am shooting a Winchester Apex Stainless with a 4-16 x 56mm Millet Mil-dot scope. I shoot around 85 to 90 grains of powder with the 777. I tried 80 to 125 grains of Goex fff. I swab between shots with rubbing alcohol along with I floated the barrel. I am so frustrated and I felt if I bought a 200 dollar scope I would not have a problem with the scope. Now I don't know and wish I knew what I was doing wrong. I am planning on getting some Pryodex Select tomorrow to see if that helps. What I used before and seemed to work a lot better, however before I was shooting conical bullets. I know the shop up town has some because just the other day I was in there and saw it on the self. Just hoped the Goex would work.
I really don't think it is the gun because I checked it over pretty good and it seems to be just fine as far as the barrel. I read a post earlier how a guy found out the QL was a little off and he did something to the QL to straighten it out. After he did this it shot lights out but not sure how to accomplish this. I am lost in my quest to get my ML shooting the way I would like it too. I guess I just don't want any fliers.
Any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
River Rat
Another thing, are you letting the barrel cool down between shots, let it cool 5 minutes or so between shots, on Doug's Savage forum the guys over there say to let the Savage cool 15 minutes between shots to prevent flyers. I don't do that even in 90 plus weather, also try to shoot in the AM when your not tired and when the weather is cooler. Consistency is important in loading, doing all loading exactly the same, swabbing, loading, pressure on bullet, etc.Write it down and think thru each step, making sure your doing it exactly the same ever time. Also pre weigh or measure your charges in well lighted place,it really is "hand loading" every shot, so anysmall thing can mess you up when your doing a multi-stop process one at a time. Best Wishes. Chap
10-21-2007 | 07:11 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Bullet Review
River Rat
We just went through this same problem with BigTimer's Optima - got it figured out with hin and now you can not get him away from his gun... Yours will work for you once we find out what the problem really is...
Check your PM's....
We just went through this same problem with BigTimer's Optima - got it figured out with hin and now you can not get him away from his gun... Yours will work for you once we find out what the problem really is...
Check your PM's....
10-21-2007 | 07:15 PM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
Likes: 0
RE: Bullet Review
Inspect that bore with a good bore light to make sure you don't have a hi/lo spot in the rifling. Does a tight cleaning patch go down steadily without any jumps or hesitations on a clean bore? And does the SST go down easy or is it pretty hard to get all the way down? Can you take it down to the powder with one smooth stroke?
That was probably me you read about removing the QLA from a TC Encore barrel. Probably should be a last resort. I'm not familiar enough with an Apex to know if it even has very much of a QL section.
You might try wiping the muzzle good with patch or rag between shots, pushing it down into the bore a bit to make sure you aren't getting some buildup on that end. And depositson that end can have a pretty dramatic effect, IMO. The rifle might shoot better with more stock contact so long as the contact is even on the barrel. And of course all the regular stuff, like letting the barrel cool between shots, being very careful in duplicating your charges and seating pressure, aligning the petals to a reference each time (close anyway), and you might want to adda bore brush stroke before you damp patch/dry patch to reduce fouling even more.
Don't get in a hurry with any part of your procedure and absolutely try to duplicate each step every time.
Just some random thoughts...
That was probably me you read about removing the QLA from a TC Encore barrel. Probably should be a last resort. I'm not familiar enough with an Apex to know if it even has very much of a QL section.
You might try wiping the muzzle good with patch or rag between shots, pushing it down into the bore a bit to make sure you aren't getting some buildup on that end. And depositson that end can have a pretty dramatic effect, IMO. The rifle might shoot better with more stock contact so long as the contact is even on the barrel. And of course all the regular stuff, like letting the barrel cool between shots, being very careful in duplicating your charges and seating pressure, aligning the petals to a reference each time (close anyway), and you might want to adda bore brush stroke before you damp patch/dry patch to reduce fouling even more.
Don't get in a hurry with any part of your procedure and absolutely try to duplicate each step every time.
Just some random thoughts...
10-21-2007 | 07:16 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
RE: Bullet Review
Thanks Chap, I am looking for a bullet that preforms well. Just have been spending a lot of time trying to fine tune my ML. I have always like the SST 250 however I guess if my ML doesn't like it I shouldn't be beating a dead horse. I just thought I could get my ML to preform better with this bullet. I would like a bullet with the ballistic tip so I can have a little flatter shooting bullet. I have noticed a difference in the speed of the bullet when shooting the SST and the XTP. I realize that there are others out there, just that one, the SST is easier to get a hold of, and I know what they do when you hit a deer with them.
I am going to have to invest in some different types of bullets and find out what shoots well with my set up. Thanks again.
River Rat
I am going to have to invest in some different types of bullets and find out what shoots well with my set up. Thanks again.
River Rat
10-21-2007 | 07:20 PM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Bullet Review
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
River Rat
We just went through this same problem with BigTimer's Optima - got it figured out with hin and now you can not get him away from his gun... Yours will work for you once we find out what the problem really is...
Check your PM's....
River Rat
We just went through this same problem with BigTimer's Optima - got it figured out with hin and now you can not get him away from his gun... Yours will work for you once we find out what the problem really is...
Check your PM's....
10-21-2007 | 08:06 PM
#28
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 11,703
Likes: 0
From: Idaho
RE: Bullet Review
Chap
It is just so much easier to trouble shoot with give and take information on the spot rather trying to write back and fourth - sides I am such a terrible speller and a 3 or 4 finger typer...
Big Timer's main problem after we talked was the condition of his bore... he was shooting breech plug grease all over in the bore... after he boiled out his bore and gaveit a hot oil treatment - everything went it where it was suppose to go- last I heard form him he had even given up his 308 and continued to hunt with his Optima... now he is even looking for a new gun - he has been bitten.... + we talked about barrel treatment between shots... way to wet of patches... lots of little things - have not heard from him for awhile so I assume all is well.
It is just so much easier to trouble shoot with give and take information on the spot rather trying to write back and fourth - sides I am such a terrible speller and a 3 or 4 finger typer...
Big Timer's main problem after we talked was the condition of his bore... he was shooting breech plug grease all over in the bore... after he boiled out his bore and gaveit a hot oil treatment - everything went it where it was suppose to go- last I heard form him he had even given up his 308 and continued to hunt with his Optima... now he is even looking for a new gun - he has been bitten.... + we talked about barrel treatment between shots... way to wet of patches... lots of little things - have not heard from him for awhile so I assume all is well.
10-22-2007 | 06:44 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 3,246
Likes: 0
From:
RE: Bullet Review
ORIGINAL: sabotloader
Chap
It is just so much easier to trouble shoot with give and take information on the spot rather trying to write back and fourth - sides I am such a terrible speller and a 3 or 4 finger typer...
Big Timer's main problem after we talked was the condition of his bore... he was shooting breech plug grease all over in the bore... after he boiled out his bore and gaveit a hot oil treatment - everything went it where it was suppose to go- last I heard form him he had even given up his 308 and continued to hunt with his Optima... now he is even looking for a new gun - he has been bitten.... + we talked about barrel treatment between shots... way to wet of patches... lots of little things - have not heard from him for awhile so I assume all is well.
Chap
It is just so much easier to trouble shoot with give and take information on the spot rather trying to write back and fourth - sides I am such a terrible speller and a 3 or 4 finger typer...
Big Timer's main problem after we talked was the condition of his bore... he was shooting breech plug grease all over in the bore... after he boiled out his bore and gaveit a hot oil treatment - everything went it where it was suppose to go- last I heard form him he had even given up his 308 and continued to hunt with his Optima... now he is even looking for a new gun - he has been bitten.... + we talked about barrel treatment between shots... way to wet of patches... lots of little things - have not heard from him for awhile so I assume all is well.
Thanks for the summary of Big Timer's main problem. I agree it is faster to PM. Can he summarize for the board and this thread whenhis problem is fixed? That will help all in the learning experience.
Chap
10-22-2007 | 07:16 AM
#30
Boone & Crockett
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 11,410
Likes: 1
From: Comance county, OK
RE: Bullet Review
Inconsistency in seating the bullet can cause fliers. i use a 2" furniture knob on the end of the ram rod and really bear down when seating the bullet on granular powder.