Pioneer2

I went out to the range yesterday and tired some Goex 2F in my son's TC Hawken .50 and it both shot better accuracy wise and no hangfires likeI was experiencing with 777.Somewhat messier to clean though.He can handle 50-70gr loads when shooting ball loads ,is this going to be humane on deer at 50-75 yards?Due to time contraints[tornado warnings]I only tried a 80gr charge with Lyman maxi-ball and got 1.5" 3 shot group at 50 yards.I used a lubed felt wad and Crisco but it was so hot it melted like applying soup.The recoil would be a little much for him as well.On occasion after a thorough cleaning two or three days later there is surface rust on the guns[even put away clean and oiled]is this common ?I've taken to giving second cleanings and bore oiling sessions.Never got around to the CCI mag primers just used up the reg ones.........Harold

nchawkeye

70grs is plenty.

rem 700

Just limit the distance, and that will kill a deer just fine. As for the surface rust, you may need to invest in a dehumidifier, or change your oil. Use alcohol to dry thegun before applying oil. Might switch to Birchwood Casey Sheath to oil with; one of the best for long storage and rust preventative.

cayugad

Pioneer2

.Somewhat messier to clean though.

that is the reason for a good water bath. And if you give the water bath with the nipple still in the barrel, it will clean that at the same time and make it much easier to remove before the second patch goes through with the nipple out.

After two or three water bath patches you will think the rifle barrel is clean. For your own sake, do not be fooled. Get a clean patch, put solvent or bore cleaner on it and work that through the barrel. You will notice it comes out "gray." This is the fine stuff that was back in the pores. I like to do a couple of them like that. Also a good solvent will help to displace any water in the barre from the water bath.

He can handle 50-70gr loads when shooting ball loads ,is this going to be humane on deer at 50-75 yards?

I have a book about muzzleloading written by Don Davis. Don's favorite deer load was 50 grains of powder and a patched roundball. He said it was very accurate, did not waste powder, easy to handle and took them down just as well. Don's theory was, for the ball to enter the animal and not exit. I am not sure I agree with his idea of loosing all the energy of the ball inside the animal. I still like the holes on each side. But 50-70 grains of Goex will take deer out. It is a good load. I would not be afraid to shoot out to 75 yards. For one reason the rifles are really accurate. Have your son put that ball through their heart, and the deer is his.

I used a lubed felt wad and Crisco but it was so hot it melted like applying soup.

Crisco breaks down in heat. If it did not, what good would it be for frying chicken. There are better homemade lubes out there you can make. That Castor oil/bees wax lube I make (a recipe of Stumpkillers for which I will be ever grateful with him for sharing) does not break down in the heat. It will get "softer" but still holds up. You can use it as a patch lube as well if you like.

On occasion after a thorough cleaning two or three days later there is surface rust on the guns[even put away clean and oiled]is this common ?

Not in my gun rack. I personally have seen a little surface rust try and start on the bolster, but the barrel itself, never. What kind of oil are you using? Also, while I am sure you have cleaned thousands of rifles, are you positive you have gotten all the water off the metal before you oil the rifle. The metal needs moisture in order to rust, that is why I ask.

I've taken to giving second cleanings and bore oiling sessions. Good thinking on your part. Also this problem might simply be related to where you live. All parts of the country have their own problems when it comes to guns and their care. By the way, you're going to love the CCI Magnum caps.

Its also nice to hear the accuracy is better. Some rifles just do not like 777. I have one old Renegade that the only thing it shoots is Pyrodex RS. Loaded with Pyrodex RS that thing will shoot as good as any rifle out there. Load it with anything else and it would make a class #1 boat anchor.

Pioneer2

The rust appears on the lock/hammer area.I'll have to buy another silica pk like I have in my other 3 safes.I printed all the lube recipies you posted previously.Unrelated ,but I got my son to stalk a sleeping antelope buck in SD Blackhills and he got within about 10 feet finally bleated to get it to rowse.Had a digital camera not a camcorder.[too bad]Could have had a rodeo.[don't try this with a bison they were limping around from the rut]
will post pics.........................Harold

wabi

A .50 round ball ahead of 50 to 70 grains of BP is plenty if you put it in the right place. Double-lung or heart shotand the deer will go down quickly.
Odd as it might sound, I've had less rust problems with BP than 777. With 777 I was sometimes finding an orange coloration on drypatches run downbore a day or two after cleaning. Not serious (damaging) rust, but some oxidation was evident. I think I may have not been getting all the residue out of the bore, since it's hard to see on the patches. With BP I use the method of "pumping" water through the bore to get most of the residue, then bristle brush, then a good BP solvent. Scrub until white patches come out white! Then I use WD-40 to remove any moisture, followed by dry patches, then finish with with a good quality oil. (I like Rem Oil)
Normally I check the gun by running a dry patch downbore a day or two after cleaning, then re-oil and store it away.

leehop

Pioneer2, I also shoot a T/C Hawkin 50. I us .490RB's and striped pillow ticking or cotten patches. Shoots well with 50 to 70 grs. DuPont 3F. I don't find cleaning so messy. I remove the barrel and nipple, stick it in a bucket of hot soapy water and using a tight patch, scrub with the ramrod. This acts like a piston pump. Using a tooth brush, scrub around the nipple area. After the third patch, it is clean. Change the water to clean hot water, just as hot as you can get. Pump it a few times to rince the soap out and heat up the barrel. Wipe any moisture off and run clean patches down th barrel 'till they come out dry. I use T/C's bore butter, Natural 2000 I think they call it, and put a thin coat of this in the bore. I also put it on the threads if the nipple after cleaning it. This bore butter (yellow) has no petrolium products in it. It seasons the barrel kind of like a cast iron pan. It also makes the cleaning a little easier net time. All this done properly, I have run a patch down the barrel a couple of weeks later and it comes out spotless. As for your rust problem, Wipe down all the metal work after cleaning with a patch soaked with this lube. I also lube a number of patches with it and keep them in a empty film canister for loading. Good lube and keeps off rust, and seems to reduce fouling while you are shooting.