goatbrother

Well, just read this today, IDFG is reconsidering the regulation change made this winter.

"IDAHO FISH AND GAME
HEADQUARTERS NEWS RELEASE
Boise, ID

Date: July 24, 2007
Contact: Ed Mitchell
(208) 334-3700


commissioners reconsider muzzleloader rules

The Idaho Fish and Game Commission, in response to complaints from some hunters, discussed the definition of muzzleloader loader weapons, but commissioners took no action on the rules during their July 19 meeting in Salmon.

The existing muzzleloader restrictions will remain in place during the upcoming hunting seasons this year.

Brad Compton, the Idaho Department of Fish and Game's big game manager, analyzed the options for the commissioners.

In response to critics of changes to muzzleloader rules adopted in January, the commission could consider several options, Compton said. One is to leave the rules as they are. Another option would be to go back to last year's rules. A third option is to simply allow the in-line bolt hammer weapons while keeping all the other current restrictions. And a fourth option would be to eliminate all restrictions - for ease of enforcement.

The muzzleloader rule changes adopted in January are generally well accepted, Commissioner Gary Power said. But with the same powder, "the kind of hammer makes little difference in performance," he said. "That just makes it look old."

Commissioners took no action but generally favored option three as the simplest way to silence the most complaints, especially from muzzleloader hunters in the Panhandle Region.

Most muzzleloader hunters, hunt with stock weapons, Commissioner Tony McDermott said.

"They're just working guys that want to take advantage of the opportunity to go hunting in the late season," he said.

The department will gather public comments on the options and submit them to the Commission in January.

Current Fish and Game rules require that muzzleloaders must:
- Use all-lead bullets within 10/1,000 (.010) inch of the bore diameter. Sabots are not allowed.
- Have open sights.
- Use only loose black or synthetic powder.
- Have an exposed, pivoting hammer.
- Have an exposed ignition using only flint or percussion caps - 209 primers are not allowed."

Someplace yesterday I read a report of someone who has talked with IDFG about the definition of what a "Pivoting Hammer" is. The report was that the field officers will only look for a pivoting hammer and the hammer does not have to function, just pivot.

So I should be able to tape a fake hammer onto the inline rifle and I'm legal

frontier gander

i dont see what the big deal is. My sidelock shoots flatter @ 150 yards than my inline. Accuracy is darn near the same. Why not give it a try for a year and see how it goes. It may surprise the guys who never hunted with a sidelock and have them finally go, Hey! this isnt as bad as i thought it was going to be! Ive hunted with inlines for years and am now finally going to traditional rifles due to there being very little difference in accuracy. I think this change could even possibly turn hunters, into even better hunters due to the fact that they will be using open sights and will need to learn how to slow down their pace and take their time. As for the scopes and the whiners who say they need them because of their failing eye sight, i dont buy into that story. Without glasses, i cant even make out a persons face when standing 10 feet away from them. Actually i need to make an appointment for new glasses so i can see again. I say idaho should stick with it the new rules for a year and see how it goes.

cascadedad

Your logic makes no sense.

frontier gander

I'll make it short and sweet.

Deal with it or hunt in another state that allows sabots, scopes

sabotloader

goatbrother

Somehow, we need to get somewhat organized and maintain some verbal pressure on the commissioners. If we sit back they will all assume that we accept the new rules and the problem will go away.

While FG sees no problem because that is the way Colorado has been during his lifetime, I do see a problem because I do not like the change that a small organized group of people were able to push through. The key word there is organized ML clubs.

While this is not my most favorite option, it is better than the current rulings.

And in fact I really do not like this option either - I would like to go somewhere down the middle, between the two options.

I really feel that comminssioner Power realy hit it correctly here.... traditional groups lobbied that the lock time was to fast on the falling bolt type hammer. I think TC has put a dent in that with there faster side hammer locks.

I sure hope that the commisioners will find a way to make contact with more hunters than just the organized ML people.

Semisane

Consider this.

They had black powder in the 1800's. Today's subs are just a more modern application of the same technology.

They had iron barrelsin the 1800's. Today's steelbarrels are just amore modern application of the same technology.

They had precussion caps in the 1800's. Today's 209 primers are just a more modern application of the same technology.

They had scopes in the 1800's. Today's scopes are just amore modern application of the same technology.

All guns thatloadfrom the front and go bang when you pull the trigger are basically the same. The rest of the arguement is just a matter of "style".

cayugad

Frontier Gander ... not wanting to get into an argument here but prior to your current epiphany of flintlocks, traditional rifles and gear, you shot inlines. And I will guess still do. So basically a ruling such as Idaho enacted would have little effect on you or I for that matter. But what of the current hundreds, even thousands of Idaho residents that while they own a inline rifle that was legal prior but now nolonger, and do not share your feelings for the more traditional side, where do they hunt? Many might not have incomes supportive of out of State hunts, nor the time to do so. Further they might not have the funds or the desire to re-invest in all new hunting gear to walk the traditional path of muzzleloading like you and I do.

So because of the desires of others and the stroke of a pen, these people are no longer able to do something in their own state, that was prior to all of this legal. Further, they are also now are ruled out of a season which might have been much more conducive to their work or leisure schedule, and your attitude is "Deal with it or hunt in another state that allows sabots, scopes " I find that rather selfish and callous on your part. I never took you for that kind of person. I guess I am a little surprised.

Unless these current laws greatly benefit game management, which I do not see. I personally believe you will encounter many more wounded animals from untrained hunters using weapons not meant for the kind of shooting they will attempt. Unless these laws are for the benefit of all hunters in Idaho, which I personally feel they are not. Otherwise the hue and cry would not have rang out so quick and loudly. Unless these laws promote a financial windfall to the State in regards to sale of hunting license. Again, many current residents will not participate, and I could understand whymany out of State hunters who bring in thousands of dollars,will not beflocking to Idaho with these regulations. What is the advantage other then to give a few, the opportunity to hunt with traditional weapons and projectiles, which in the past was always their options?

I can only hope all muzzleloader shooters, traditional and modern alike,could share seasons, and opportunities. That all muzzleloader shooters could ban together to help protect and preserve this sport I so dearly enjoy. Lets hope Idaho sees this and makes the necessary changes.

goatbrother

FG your a little misimformed about scopes on muzzleloaders in Idaho. Scopes never were legal on a muzzleloader in a muzzleloader season, never. We do know how to use open sights and deal with all the other challanges that go with the sights. This isn't about scopes, it isn't about performance, it's about cosmetics and squeaky wheel politics!!!

frontier gander

No need to get everyone riled up, I was just saying that if idaho feels that a sidelock is the way to go, they must know best. As for me not knowing about the scopes, i figured they allowed scopes during MLing season. Sabotloader posted a pic many many months ago with his omega and the deer he shot, i guess that may have been during rifle season? I dont agree with their bullet size crap, thats dumb. I think it should be a minimum bullet weight, not the diameter. Maybe idaho is doing exactly that, trying to scare away out of state hunters so the population will increase and better chances for more animals. Or they just feel its best to have it the traditional way? It could have been worse, They could have said flintlocks only like PA has. Anyone who has ever hunted with a flintlock knows how hard it is and theres much more that could go wrong and send you back to camp without any meat dragging behind you.
Yes, I do shoot inline and traditional. If colorado said traditional only, it wouldnt matter to me. I enjoy hunting with a sidelock or flintlock just the same. For me, its more of a challenge that i enjoy and want to experience more.

But i know noone wants to get into an argument, i personally am tired and done with arguing about something dumb.
It was just a misunderstanding is all. No need for anyone, you or me to get into an argument over something silly such as this topic.

cascadedad

FG, Your logic makes no sense because Idaho's arguement has been that these changes are necessaryfor "game management" reasons. Per your own arguement, there is very little difference in accuracy and distance.

Using open sights doesn't cause people to slow down their pace and take their time. Slob hunters will continue to take poor shots, such as 150+ yard, offhand and animal running, no matter what kind of sights they are using and I think you know what I am talking about.

You don't buy it because you are 23 and know everything. Your eyesight problems are different than an older person's. Ever hear of bifocals?

Don't worry, when I was 23 I knew it all too. Now that I am 43, I don't know squat. Can't imagine how little I will know when I get old like Sabotloader.