ORIGINAL: falcon

Want fragmentation AND penetration: Look at the RWS Uni-Classic bullet. It is designed to break in two: The nose fragments and the rear portion continues. There is also the monolithic GPA bullet that does the same thing. The GPA bullet is made in Monaco: Called a friendin Austria who uses them with great success on red stag, elk,reindeerand moose. Thereis anothermakerof similiar bullets, but i cannot remember who it is.

http://www.rws-munition.de/en/projectiles/UNI_Classic_projectile.htm

http://www.roc-import.com/gb/gpa/index.php

ORIGINAL: falcon

"Do you know anybody who has used them in the US?"

Yes, my Austrian friend has killed elk and deer with the GPA bullet in the US. One elk wentabout 50 yards, theother twowere bang flops.

ORIGINAL: Todd1700

The "science has proved that bees can't fly" urban myth originated in a 1934 book by entomologist Antoine Magnan, who discussed a mathematical equation by Andre Sainte-Lague, an engineer. The equation proved that the maximum lift for an aircraft's wings could not be achieved at equivalent speeds of a bee. I.e., an airplane the size of a bee, moving as slowly as a bee, could not fly. Although this did not mean a bee can't fly (which after all does not have stationary wings like the posited teency aircraft), nevertheless the idea that Magnan's book said bees oughtn't be able to fly began to spread.

It spread at first as a joke in European universities, at Sainte-Lague's & Magnan's expense. But later it became a "fact" among the gullible or the uneducated not smart enough to get the joke.