I don't know what to tell you. Calm down, get more bullets and try again. This time start at the 50 yard station and make sure the hits are where you want. Them move back to 75 yards and double check where they are hitting. From there move back to the 100 distance and see what's happening. Sometimes rifle and shooters just have bad days. I have rifles that will take the bull out almost every time. Then it seems I go to the range and nothing works for me. Why? Who knows. I just take it in stride and start from the basics again. There have been times I have even went all the way to 25 yards with some rifles.

Get shooting some kind of bullet in bulk like the XTP. You will find it much more cost effective. Better luck with the next outing. But a few outings with a rifle and one goes bad, I would not be ready to sell it. I would be ready to shoot it again.

Maybe it was the wind. If that's the case, compensate forthe wind and see what happens next time.

This has happened to me with powerbelts and what I find is when I look for the bullet in the pile the skirt does not come off. Try spinning the skirt
on the nipple before you load it.
Redclub

yes i'd be interested in buying it! If you're using a scope i'd be taking that thing off and shooting open sights and see what it does. My x-150 will hold solid 2" groups at 100 yards after 6-7 without swabbing. Let me know what we can work out.

I just thought of something else. Are you using a bore brush at the end of the day to clean out all the crud or just patches with solvent? I spend atleast 6-7 minutes just scrubbing my bore on my rifles and then start running patches.

I was using open sights guys. The PB's have shot great for me so farand I doubt if they were the problem. As I have shot the Apex very much now and have not figured out why I can't hold groups, I am gonna go and return it tonight along with some other stuff. I can get the Z5 Omega for no more money out of my pocket.I bought some junk I didn't need and can return that, the rifle, and use a $20 off coupon and buy that TC for no more cash. I think it's definetely the way to go. I would like to clarify that I do not think that your Winchesters or CVA's are junk, I just think that they are a bit lesser guns than the TC's.

I probably gave up on the Apex too soon but it's really not about that. I just want the absolute best gun for my money.I know that if I don't get the Omega I'll wishI did later. For 60 extra dollars, I see no reason not to go for it. Why not get the better warranty and resale value as well as a name I completely trust? It seems logical to me. I'm sorry if I let you down by giving up so fast but I can tell it's not gonna quite make me happy enough. If I start shooting bad with the Omega I'll know it's not the gun[8D]--jk. Thanks for all your help guys. I've made up my mind. Sorry frontier gander, you'll have to find a different one. I'm returning it tonight.

Do you guys blame me for getting an Omega?

Heck no. Your first statement says it all. If you remember when you asked for advice on what to buy, I told you to get the one you want, period, (not to mention I think I told you to avoid the sidekick). It's your rifle and you have to live with it. Since you originally said you wanted it the most, you should have got it in the first place.

Even so. Don't expect shooting in an 18 MPH crosswind with the Omega and a 245 PB will be any different. Had you bought the Omega first, this would be a thread about T/C junk.

i offered you $180 + the $20 off coupon, thats more than what you paid. Personally im thinking that this was all a set up to put a product down and act like you had it all along. Hell, i'll go $190 + the $20 off coupon. Either gun you buy, its not going to fix itself. I offered to have you send it to me so i could shoot it and figure out whats wrong or if there is even anything wrong. So im not buying this story. Let me know about that $190 + the $20 off card.

I think you gave up on the first rifle to soon. Even though I own a Z5 and it seems to be a great rifle Winchester does not loan it's good name to crap so you probabally had a fine rifle to begin with.

You never gave the rifle a chance and expected it to behave the same at 60yds as it does at 100yds with only from what I can glean from this thread one box of bullets. The gun isn't even broken in at this point, preferred cleaning methodes developed or anything.

Good luck with the Omega but be prepaired for the same results till you have it tuned in.

F.G.

I don't think it is that at all. It's buyer's remorse.

Check out the 3rd post on this link
http://modernmuzzleloader.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=5195

Not so fast. It is a hit or miss proposition to get an Omega to shoot conicals well. Mine doesn't and I have been trying new things for 3 years. I finally had to go back to pryodex and shoot powerbelts, but it will not shoot full bore conicals worth a hoot. Shoots some conicals with an 8 inch group at 25 yards.

Even sent it back to T/C. All they did is shoot sabots through it and say it was fine. Unfortunately, you can't use Sabots in Colorado.

I am not the only one this has happened to so don't think that getting an omega will solve your problems. It may or may not. I would work with your gun some more on a clear calm day and see what happens.