RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

Hey, I know you're intentions are good, buuuttt, you probably won't teach anyone that 100 grains 777 is too much for a 245, andI won't teach anyone that 44 cap and revolver isn't a deer rifle, and noone is gonna teach me that a 444 PB is a risky projectile for elk. This thread isn't going anywhere and everyone is just gonna continue shooting 245's with 2 or 3 pellets, folks will still kill deer with cap and ball revolvers, and I just might kill an elk with a 444 PB.

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

Pglasgow

Ya know your right, for someone to be taught, they have to be willing to listen and learn or have to be seeking an answer to a problem they have. The origonal thread was on "PB Disintegrates" (going from 299g to 164g on a quartering frontal hit), and why that happened and I thinkseveral of usanswered thatfrom most every angle.

Most will want to continue in their "easy loading PB way"; not me, I learned aboutthat bullet 3 years ago in the school of hard knocks (a non recoved wounded deer) and never want togo back to repeat that grade again. Iam just hoping my testimony will help enlighten some newfolks who just bought MLs or who are choosing bullets and loads for their new Christmas gift. I am not hoping to convert people who have their favorite load and bullet, howeverif they are not happy with terminal performance dolittle experiment like this:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/bullets_penetration_tests_for_mu.htm

and see which loads and bullets are most accurate and penetratesand, clay or soil and hold together well.A bullet that won't hold together well in sand or soil is not good enough for hunting.
Chap Gleason Va

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

You know the same thing happened to me with roundball, but it wasn't the roundball's fault. Blaming the PB isn't teaching anyone anything, really, do you think so? You either built a loosing hand by pulling the trigger or you had no idea what your hand was. That lost deer is your fault not the powerbelt's. If you had come away with that understanding then I would have to say that you learned from the experience. But alas, your reponseto "school" is to blame a bullet for pulling the trigger and badmouth people that use them as being too lazy to push a bullet down the bore.

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

Blame is not the answer and it is not good for the forum to point fingers at each other.
What some of us have been trying to poit out is that every bullet has a velocity range that it works in including PB's if you can find that range and you are willing to live with the trajectory that it gives you then all the popular ones including PB's will do the job; you have to remember that when PB's were designed the normal load was about 70 to 80 gr of black FF and thats where they work best but the dangerous game 444 and the platiniums can handle a bit more. They were not designed for mag loads or inlines to start with in my humble opinion even though my Omega will group them in 1.5 inchs @ 100yds with 150 gr RS,which makes a fine varmit load. Lee

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

I would disagree with you on at least two main points, Lee. I don't think a 444 PB is designed for a traditional muzzleloading rifle.And I don't think they can handle just a "bit" more than245 PB with a hollowpoint. Nor do Ithink a 444 PB is a bit more than a varmint bullet. In my humble opinion,its not a good comparison to load 3 pellets on a 245 and draw conclusions about the performance of a 444 with75 grains. 400+ grain unjacketed conicals have,propelled with just such 70 - 90 grain (BP equivalents)charges, killed millions of bison, elk, grizzlys, moose, caribou, not to mention alotafrican dangerous game. This kind of loading, as evidenced by the early black powder cartridge rifles,is proven to have done this providing the penetration and wound making characteristics which are required to do it.

It's so crazy all the conceptions we have about different projectiles. I've yet to see anyone, but myself, change their mind about them. You should recall that I changed my mind about using roundballs for hunting and in fact, saving for a better roundball traditional rifle. In any event, I really meant it when I said this thread isn't accomplishing anything, there is so much mis or dis (which ever one wants to call it) information in it, a considerable portion of which is non-contextual, that its not possible for someone naive to bullet selection to draw any conclusions from it. And that IMO is a dowright shame.

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

you know, just getting off this subject a little,i was going to get a roundball barrel for my t/c hawkins .50 cal..i have 1-48 twist..

i was disgusted with my shooting with roundball in my gun ,oh, for about 34 years..

then came along ,you folks, guess what..with 60 grs of 2f geox,.490 rb,.018 pillow tick,bore button,english flints..

i now can put rb in SAME hole at 25 yards,flintlock, open sights..

without info i read from you folks,i would have never tried rb again..you all did it..dont want to put names on here as i may forget ones that got me back on track..

just think, 34 years, i blame my t/c hawkins for being a BAD roundball gun..

NOW, hell i dont need a green mountain barrel for rb..mine is great to shoot..i have best of both worlds, good rb barrel and good powerbelt/maxi barrel..1-48 twist..

without info on here on ,HOW TO CLEAN IT, HOW TO GET BETTER SIGHTS,WHAT FLINTS WORKED, WHAT CHARGE AND PATCH SIZES,BEST RB,HOW TO REPLACE LOCK,NEW VENT LINER,HOW TO LOAD PAN..

all those made me try ROUNDBALLS AGAIN..boy, did that hawkins shoot those rb..i almost gave up on the MAXI-BALL/POWERBELT ,back to rb as good as they shoot..

1 guy on here,he really knows the flintlock with rb..he really helped me BUT we ended here as not friends,sad, because he is one of best on rb that i have ever talked too..

sorry i got of the powerbelt topic..

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

[/color]Pglasgow[/color], the 444 dangerous game bullet I was refering to is quite a bit different design the the regular PB and you would believe several dollars each! Penatration is what they are designed for really. Lee

Steel Tip [font=joleqt+caslonfiveforty-roman,caslon]for the really big stuff
(Cape Buffalo, Elephant)
http://www.powerbeltbullets.com/docs/PBB2006.pdf

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

I have already said this in another post but I'll repeat it. I love Powerbelts. I used them last year(240 grain Aero Tip and 120 grains Pyrodex)and shot a 200 pound 8 point at 70 yards through the heart. It fell over in it's tracks and never got up again. It was a complete pass through. The funny thing was that there wasn't a spot of blood on the ground. I still can't understand that.

My doe this year was shot at 50 yards.I was using 110 grains of powder and 300 grain TC XTP MAG sabots. I hit the deer in the neck and she went right down but crawled 30 or 40 yards. She must've been hit the jugular or a main artery because she threw blood out of the entrance and exit wounds very profusely.

I have no complaints with either bullet. The XTP's are extremely hard to load in my gun when dirty. The Powerbelts are always easy. My complaint with the PB's is the price. I neever buy them because they are basically a dollar a bullet. the Powerblets also group tighter in both of my ML's. I go with the PB's when I have the money and the XTP's when I don't.

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

I had trouble loading the XTP's also and I love their price and preformance, so I went to a Crushed rib sabot, cost is $4.99 for 50 at Mid South. I also now clean between shots even in the field.
Chap Gleason Va

RE: Powerbelt Disintegrates
 

</softly spoken>
Pglasgow,
I agree the lost deer is my fault, since I didn't hit the deer properly behind the front shoulder where I was aiming, and I was using a bullet that is known not to penetrate and I was NOT aware of that. It is NOT well know outside of this forum that PB don't penetrate. Also, I did not say people are lazy, I said they want easy loading as I do, it is not wrong or lazy to want easy loading. That is why I clean betweenshots anduse Crushed Rib sabot, the cleaning is for accuracy and ease of loading.
I am sorry I offened you by talking about your PB bullets, that was not my intent to offend you. I do not think people arelazy for using PB, but I do thinka lot of people, including myself 3 years ago,don't know their limitations.
So again forgive me if I offended you and other PB users out there.
Chap Gleason