dmacl

I'm just wondering if anyone has experience with rounds from blackjackhill.com. I'm looking at rounds for my daughter to shoot out of her new Winchester Apex and found this site. The prices are what really have me interested. At $10-$15 per 50 she can put a lot more rounds through her rifle than if she shoots PowerBelts or Shockwaves. I know the stuff they are selling isn't fancy or high tech, but if it will do the job thats whats important.

Is there any reason for me not to try this stuff out? I am new to BP so I really don't have a super clear understanding of why I would use a Powerbelt over a Shockwave over a Maxi-ball or whatever. I do understand that a ball out of her 1:28 twist barrel isn't good. But beyond that I"m still learning. But other than that, what restrictions should I be worried about. Since she is paying for her own supplies, I want her to get as much shooting for her money as possible, without wasting her money on complete crap. I'm not the kind of guy who has to have the most expensive, newest, absolute best of everything, but I do want a quality product that will get the job done. And if she doesn't have to pay a buck a shot she'll be able to do more shooting.

Pglasgow

damcl,

Buffalo ballets are available in 245 and 270 weights. Some discussion of them took place in the "Newbie with a sidekick" thread including links to buy them. They range from $9 to 12 dollars per box of 50 and she could hunt with them. The lower weight of the ballets will equal lesser recoil than the slugs blackjack is selling.

Roundballs are fine if you don't push them too hard. If all you plan to do with them in the 1:28 Apex is to plink and small game hunt, by all means, take advantage of the low cost of roundball. I suggested them just so you could have alot of fun at the range with her without breaking the bank. I use 20 grains and a pillowticking patch. A great load for rabbit and squirrel for recoil just little more than a .22. I'm not recommending the use of prb in her 1:28 Apex for deer hunting.

Here's some good cheap plinking loads

.490 Round ball$.10240 ballet $ .22
20 grains Pyro P $.0460 grains Pyro P$ .12
Pillowticking (cut)$.02 Winchester 209 $ .03
Winchester 209 $.03-----------------------
---------------------- Per shot$.37
per shot$.19

For the roundball, its like buying box of 20 shell for $4.00, or 50 for $10. Kinda like 22 mag ammo and has about the same energy for small game.

For the 240 ballet loadis going to recoil in the heavy Apex similar to a typical 243.

But if they are crap, by all means, ignore them. Personally, I prefer to starta youngsterwith inexpensive materials, as it is me that generally has to pay for them. I really wouldnot recommend a 350 to 500 grain conical tointroduce her tomuzzleloading and train her in safemuzzleloading practice.I just wouldn't do it.

dmacl

Good point on the larger grain conicals. She is working toward going Elk hunting with me next season, so would need to get to that point eventually, but for now you're right, she is probably better off with something smaller that is going to be a little more comfortable to shoot. I'll pick up some Buffalo Ballets and give them a try. Thanks for the info.

lonewolf5348

BILL: FROM BLACK JACK HILL IS A SUPER GUY TO DEAL WITH AND HIS CASTING IS EXCELLENT.

cayugad

I've bought LOTS of projectiles from Bill at Black Jack Hill. His casting and attention to detail is really good.And he is a great guy to do busness with. Some loads I would recommend from him are his REAL conicals and maxiball. The maxiball can be loaded with 70 grains of powder and produce some excellent accuracy. Also if you push them a little hard, they could be your daughter's future elk load. Loads I would stay away from are the Minnies. I have yet to find a rifle that will shoot them well. I make a lot of my own projectiles as well, and minnines are a hit and miss accuracy bullet. While they might have worked fine on the battlefield, I want one that I can place out at distances, not hit general area.

Ball-ets are also great shooting projectiles. I get better accuracy with the 270 grain ball-et then the 245 out of my inline rifles. Out of the traditional twists the 245 grain really shine.

Pglasgow

Darin,

I think you are on the right track.

I'm probably wrong, but I don't think it is possible to waste either time or money introducing your daughter to the great sport of muzzleloading. Even while she probably won't hunt with ballets and 50 grain charges, getting 5 hours of quality timeenjoying the sport of muzzleloading with your daughter for less than $20 is as the Mastercard commercial says, PRICELESS.

I can tell you. If she gets bruised from a stout load on that first shot, it will ruin the whole first outing. Every shot, even the lighter loads, will hurt after it. And if she is anything like most young ones, you will have quite a job on your hands getting the trigger to break with her eyes open.

I hope this opportunity affords you lots of great experiences shooting and hunting with your daughter.

dmacl

I appreciate the responses. I will definately get some ballets and have her start with those. With the positive responses to Black Jack Hill I will have to get some rounds from there as well and give them a try. At some point I definately want her shooting something a little larger than the ballet. I have no doubt that taking an elk with one is possible, but I prefer to give her as much margin for error as possible. And at what Black Jack Hill is charging the REAL conicals or Maxiballs could definately be a target round that she can also use to take elk if they work as advertised.

Pglasgow

Darin,

If you read the comments on the 500 grain conicals at BlackJack hill, you will find he recommends 50 grains 2f BP to start. It will deliveraround 1000 ft-lbs at 150 yards in the elevations one finds elk in September. So heavy conicalsreally wring thump from a charge.

If you hunt the timber, as I do, then you (and she)will only need to be able to shoot 80 or so yards because you can't get a clear shot beyond that distance in timber. Still hunting elk in the timber where they bed is exciting and a good way to find them. You may also be able to call them close with cow talk or a bugle. Best to work in teams for that, putting the shooter between caller and bugling elk. I met a team of 3 hunters who still hunted in drive-like fashion combing timber each about 150 yards apart. They used their cow calls to commucicate their position so they moved in synchony (very slowly mind you). Very clever and they did harvest an elk.

Again, good luck with it.

cayugad

One thing I want to mention.. some rifles have restrictions on the size of conicals you can shoot. At all times follow those recommendations. The 500 grain from Black Jack is all right. I shot a lot of them, but the maxiball are much more accurate.

Pglasgow

Another thing about the Maxi-ball. It'llload reasonably easy, , pretty much guaranteed. You'll want to slug your barrel and make sure you order properly sized conicals if you are purchasing single diameter conicals from a custom caster.