tcuser

I been reading other forums and soo many people complaining about guns beeing hard to load, and you cant get another sabot down unless you swab the barrel, also heard "yea such and such is better you can shoot 6 shots before you need to swab", my question is should these people be using front loaders, I told a friend of mine interested in them that they are not a lazy mans gun, I dont mind swabing between shots and do so even if I can get 2 or more shots off, I mean dont you want to keep the bore condtion as constant as possible?? it doesnt make sense to me, sorry for the rant, most of the the hard loading barrel storys probably come more from the lazy crowd rather then the valid problem group. This idea came to me when I was at the range with a few new muzzleloader guys, I saw and heard "man this is hard to load" while it wasnt harder than any other gun I v loaded...
besides its a muzzleloade not an automatic its a one shot deal fellas, I said it and heard it I believe on here if it goes down easy it sure as hell will fall out just as easy..what you guys think is my frustration getting the best of me...I dont mind a little swabbing for dead center accuracy

HEAD0001

This is strictly a guess. But I believe 90% or more of the ML hunter's out there use there ML for one reason only. It extends there hunting time in the woods. I realize this is a BP sight, so there areactually more true ML shooters and hunters here. But I would say overall most hunter's are just trying to increase their time in the woods.

So-I believe your comments are true. I believe you have been dealing with the 90%, and not the 10%. I hunt PA alot-Flintlock only. I run into alot more true BP shooter's here, because it is flintlock only.

Although I must admit- I do not see alot of traditional posts and questions on this sight. However I am probably as guilty as most. I have Encore's and Knight's along with my flinter's. And yes I have trouble getting that second shot down the TC's. But I never have any trouble putting 20 or 30 down range with my flinter. Sorry for the ranting. Tom.

tcuser

yea I agree too as the guys who really love muzzleloading (myself includid) dont find as many "problems" and quick fixes as the others who are in it for one reason, this board more than other has more of the good kind thats why I brought it up here aswell

cayugad

I don't really think the people in this sport are lazy. I think they are looking for an easier way out and around the loading and shooting problems they face. Some might call that lazy, other might call that inquisitive. Who can blame them. Wouldn't you want something to work better then expected. That's why they try different powders, sabots, projectiles or techniques. It all makes loading and hunting in the field easier. And I will be the first to admit.. I hate swabbing a rifle. I'm not lazy, I just hate to do it. I do it only because if I don't I can't make the rifle shoot the way I want. At the end of the day a lazy man would not clean three or sometimes more rifles. He'd go to a center fire.

Actually a lot of the complaints and questions you hear from the posters should not be blamed all on the poster. I started out with traditional rifles. I very seldom if ever have to swab when shooting roundball and accuracy is as good in the first shot as the tenth. The only reason I do sometimes swab them is just because I can tell from loading, they are getting fowled and do not want to risk accuracy if I continue.

Unfortunately a lot of the new shooters to the sport came into this with eyes open but minds unclear. They thought that they would buy an inline rifle and that you would load a sabot and shoot, load another and shoot another. I remember my first inline rifle. I was real excited until the third shot and I broke the short starter trying to get a sabot down the barrel. No one ever told me about swabbing back then. I was kind of under the impression they were like my traditional rifles where I could shoot and shoot.And who ever got the foolish idea that an inline was easier to tune then a traditional rifles ... I'd sure argue that with them.

A lot of this can be blamed on the barreland gun makers. If there was a set standard for barrel tolerance and measurements of bore, a better sabot and projectile could be designed to allow the second and third shots without swabbing. The trouble is there would be a lot of bullet makers out of business. Because all rifles would shoot somewhat alike. So you make a better bullet at a reasonable cost and you capture the market.

You are right though, this is not a clean person's sport. There are messy powders, breech plug grease, conical grease, fowling, smoke, loud noises.. what more could you ask for...

Also if; "it goes down easy it sure as hell will fall out just as easy.." is not a true statement. White Rifles have proved that. The conicals are slip fit. They go down the barrel with moderate to light pressure. Sure you can shake them out it you try, but I seldom walk around the woods shaking the devil out of my rifle to see if I can move the projectile. I do though when hunting from time to time check my load position with a ramrod to make sure it is where it should be, no matter what rifle I am shooting. Accuracy with a White rifle is more then known by many shooters in this sport. Also these slip fit conicals have been all over the world hunting all kinds of beasts.

While there are many shooters who took up black powder for a few extra days in the woods or a little more meat in the freezer, what I see by many posters comments is a spark. They get a rifle, and they hunt. Then they shoot a deer with that rifle and think.. pretty cool!! Next thing you know they are hooked and they are hunting strictly with powder rifles and getting into all aspects of the sport all the way back to flintlocks. These things are habit forming.. Then again this is just my opinions...

TNHagies

I think I have to agree w/Dave. In fact I sent him a PM yesterday asking about Harvester Crush Rib sabots because my new ML is hard as crap to load.I've shot dozens upon dozens of MLs and so I think I have a pretty good idea of whata "hard to load" ML is. I don't mind hearing people complain about it. What it tells me is that they are interested in fooling around w/them to make their ML experience better. That's better to me thanto hear them say "These things are hard to load" and someone say "you're just lazy" then they never want to shoot them again. When if someonewould just help them out and find a better matching sabot/bullet combo they'd probably enjoy it a lot more and consider goingout in the woods during ML season rather than staying at home.Just MHO.

Redclub

Lazy, well maybe, some folks and I am one of them have a hard time loading a sabot,With a bad shoulder (an ol age)it just doesn't work, at my range I can get maybe 3 shots and then its quits ,forget about loading in a treestand. With my Whites I can shoot as long as I want, I have an Omega that shoots powerbelts fairly well and that loads fairly easy.
Redclub

Chris W.

There's hard to load and then there's HARD TO LOAD! Granted, I don't expect the bullet to go down the barrel like a greased pig sliding across glass, but I shouldn't have to literally pound the bullet down the barrel either.With some sabots I 've tried in the past, I felt like I was going to break the ram rod before getting the bullet seated. A nice snug fit is what I like to feel when putting a bullet down the barrel.

cayugad

If you have a rifle that you have to "pound" the sabot down the bore, then that is not the sabot/bullet combination for you. That is when you look into a thinner sabot or difference projectile all together..

Wolfhound76

Some people just don't like to swab. It's never bothered me. In fact I'm so used to it that anything I shoot that doesn't require a swab feels wrong so I swab anyway. I'm always amazed at the extremes people will go to not to have to swab.

gopherfan

I've been shooting my omega frequently since aquiring it last winter. It's not easy to load certain projectiles and I swab between shots. Laziness is not a factor here. I stared off getting a bunch of 245gr barnes spitfires and was disturbed when I couldn't push them down a clean barrel. The shockwaves that came with the gun were also difficult to load, however, it was acheivable with swabbing. My concern was that swabbing is less than ideal for the field...so much for quick loaders. After reading several posts on this forum I tried the crushed rib sabot with great success. I also have used JB's to polish the barrel a few times and finally I got smart and switched to kleenbore primers. This has done wonders for my "laziness". I still swab between shots but can push this to every 3-4 shots which makes me feel better about reloading in the field. The most interesting thing is that the 245 spitfires that once were sitting on the shelf (and nearly put up for auction on eBay) now load with firm constant pressure. I attribute this to the bore polishing and shooting a lot in the past year. What other explanation is there for having a projectile fit a barrel better over time? The swabbing isn't a factor as I couldn't load them in a clean barrel when I first got the gun. I would have been frustrated with the sport and the gun if I hadn't discovered the resources at this forum. Who knows, maybe someone else with similiar issues will search for answer here and get some great advice. There's a huge learning curve with muzzleloading and I've gained more insight here than from any book because the folks here are unassuming, helpful, and know what works and doesn't work for them. Keep it up! Tom