58-cal is an easy choice for me. With 280 gr. roundball & regular lubed cotton patch or my custom Permatex Hand Cleaner-lubed patcharound .015-018 thick, that hunk of lead serves as a conical with mouth-dropping accuracy out-to 125 yards using only 70-75 gr. 777 FFF.

A nice 2nd choice is actually a regular conical with that caliber. Another outstanding accuracy report can be yours using the same 70-75 grains with either Buffalo Ballet conicals for that caliber. I prefer the 405 gr. Hollow Point Ballet myself. You can buy these bullets at

http://www.thunder-ridge-muzzleloading.com/buffalo.htm#ballet

Also for sale is the entire thunder-ridge onlinebusiness.... lol

Hey cayugad, do you have any pics of the stainless on your Renegade? I wonder how that looks.
Yeah, Fox ridge outfitters has the 1-48" twist 58cal made by T/C arms. I don't know what that would do for me because I want to shoot roundballs and I know that the GM will have incredible accuracy with roundballs. I plan to hunt elk, moose, and antelpe in the next few years. Everyone on the Goex forum seemed to say that the 58cal roundball is devasting and has incredible killing powder to stop anything in NA with no trouble!

P.S. What kind of groups do you get out of that GM 58cal? What is your load with that rifle?

That's it there in the center. Looks kind of like a rifle in White if you ask me.

I could not agree more. When you hear the thump of that 284 grain roundball down range it sure makes you smile. Just consider what you are actually pushing down range. Granted roundballs looks speed and energy faster then sabots, but out to 100+ yards they are still a very deadly combination.

The best I have done at 100 yards was just underthree inches. To be very honest, with my vision, I have a hard time taking open sight long distance shots. I average usually 4" or better. When I read of people shooting 1.5 or better groups with open sights I am inspired to try harder. To concentrate more on my sight picture. I think the rifle can shoot better then I can.

For you as a traditional shooter after large game, the .58 caliber 1-70 twist would be an excellent choice.

That doese not look bad at all! You have alot of muzzleloaders. Just a guess that that is only a small fraction of the muzzleloaders you have. How do you remember loads for all of your muzzleloaders? How do you keep up shooting all of em?

CB, at 100 yards you could be in the neighborhood of 14" low. I assumed 1400 fps MV in estimating that. Pittsburghunter mentioned that you can file down the front sight. I thought it may be helpful to calculate how much you may need to trim the front sight so that it isn't an extraordinary amount of trial and error.

Knowing that your 5 in. low at 50 yards and knowing that being 2 in" high at fifty yards willput you about 1" low at 100 yards (assuming 1410 MV),we wish to raise the incline of the barrel so that you are 7" higher at 50 yards than where you are currently sighted.

Divide 7" by 150 ft. (.046667 in./ft)

This is a rise over run figure.

Determine the run of your sights by measuring the distance between the two sights in inches. Divide this by 12 to convert to feet.

Now multiply this number by the rise over runalteration (.046667) to determine how much of the front sight you need to file away.

Example:

Distance between front sight and rear sight = 18in or 1.5 ft

1.5 * .46667 = .07 in

So, if the run of the sights is 18", then you need to file away a little over a 1/16" (.0625"). If you file more than is needed, then you can lower the the rear sight. If you shoot a faster MV you will need to lower the rear sight. If you shoot a slower MV then you may need to file the front sight some more.

Good luck with your deer this year.

Happy Hunting, Phil

I created a Data Base using note books, for each rifle. In that Data Base I enter all the information of the days shoot. On the computer I have a file for each rifle. In that file I add a picture of the target from each shoot. On the picture I am always care to include date, time, weather, powder charge, distance, and projectiles. Again this is another point of reference. I can then search the Data Base by rifle, projectiles, just about anything and it will give the the shooting results from each rifle and a picture of how the rifle performed.

That also helps when I get another rifle. I can search caliber, twist, etc and I have a pretty good idea of how the new rifle might shoot and what will shoot best out of it.

And yes, that is only part of the collection. I have a real problem when it comes to muzzleloaders. I keep telling myself that I will not get another, but then I find one on an auction site and next thing you know, I own that one also...

If you get any more rifles you might have to send your computer to my house so I an add more memory!!! J/K!