Randy Wakemans Statement
03-11-2006 | 07:42 AM
#41
Giant Nontypical
Joined: Nov 2005
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RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
Also the double charge, double ball, shot with a long string usually from behind a building after sand baging into a car tire was the sop for some of us that built our own in the 50's and 60' era. We did not consider it as proof testing ,simply a safty precaution in case of flawed barrel or breach plug.Lee
03-11-2006 | 08:06 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
ORIGINAL: Wolfhound76
IKNOW this isn't the case. He does sell muzzleloaders but only Savages. Savage almost hired him to take Toby's old job but decided not to hire anyone for it. The only people who pay him for muzzleloading information/consultation is a Law firm.I'll let you figure that one out.
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
It seems much more plausible to me, that Randy is "paid" to promote the products and help with sales.
It seems much more plausible to me, that Randy is "paid" to promote the products and help with sales.
T7 claimed we was "paid" to overcharge muzzleloading rifles and supports Randy in publicly announcing that he overcharges muzzleloading rifles.
So I guess, its just the lawyers paying him. He, He, He. Are they going to defend him to? Wolfhound? Do you really think Randy is proving anything in favor of the lawyer's case(s) when he overcharges muzzleloaders and "tests" them?
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-11-2006 | 08:19 AM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,470
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
"They" do not have to obey the laws of the manufacturer when testing rifles.
"They" do not have to obey the laws of the manufacturer when testing rifles.
Yes.... Toby was the ML-tech for Savage's testings. I'm sure Randy was asked to contribute on Savage's behalf in this case.
And Savage, devoid of its own laboratory testing, couldn't defend itself without asking Randy to put on full body protection and attempt to blow up his Savage? You are a piece of work T7.
C'mon Phil..... enough already! Quit trying to weasel out. Instead... just say "I didn't know!"
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-11-2006 | 08:25 AM
#44
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 714
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
So then, don't you think that Randy has an "interest" in that(those) lawsuit(s)?
T7 claimed we was "paid" to overcharge muzzleloading rifles and supports Randy in publicly announcing that he overcharges muzzleloading rifles.
So I guess, its just the lawyers paying him. He, He, He. Are they going to defend him to? Wolfhound? Do you really think Randy is proving anything in favor of the lawyer's case(s) when he overcharges muzzleloaders and "tests" them?
ORIGINAL: Wolfhound76
IKNOW this isn't the case. He does sell muzzleloaders but only Savages. Savage almost hired him to take Toby's old job but decided not to hire anyone for it. The only people who pay him for muzzleloading information/consultation is a Law firm.I'll let you figure that one out.
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
It seems much more plausible to me, that Randy is "paid" to promote the products and help with sales.
It seems much more plausible to me, that Randy is "paid" to promote the products and help with sales.
T7 claimed we was "paid" to overcharge muzzleloading rifles and supports Randy in publicly announcing that he overcharges muzzleloading rifles.
So I guess, its just the lawyers paying him. He, He, He. Are they going to defend him to? Wolfhound? Do you really think Randy is proving anything in favor of the lawyer's case(s) when he overcharges muzzleloaders and "tests" them?
And no Randy does not overcharge rifles.
03-11-2006 | 09:01 AM
#45
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,470
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
They pay him on a case by case basis. He sees the rifle, pictures of the injuries, andshooter statements for his opinion on whether or not it's user negligence. He also signs a confidentiality agreement so he can't talk about the specific cases. If they go to court then there's more involved.
Don't you think that the Law firm wouldwant, need, and expect analysis in favor of the plaintiff? I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if its always the shooter's fault, there will be no more money for Randy from the Law firm.
And no Randy does not overcharge rifles.
Here is the timeline.
Bdeather says Randy made the statement that he has often exceeded Savage's safe loads.
T7 says that Randy was wearing "full body protection", making it OK.
I voice my dissapproval of Randy making a public announcement,as a leader, a person people look to for example, that he has deliberately loaded prohibited loads.
T7 claims its OK because Randy is "paid" to protect us.
I erringly assume Rifle Manufactures are paying Randy to overcharge their guns. Then say I don't buy it. I say if they (manufactures) pay him, it is more plausible that he is paid to promote product.
Wolfhound then says its just the lawyers paying him. Of course, I can only assume that the lawyers are paying Randyto overcharge muzzleloaders, because well, that is actually the topic I am discussing with T7 (Randy overcharging muzzleloaders and whether its OK).
Now Wolfhound claims that Randy doesn't overcharge muzzleloaders. Who has their story wrong? Is it Bdeather and T7? Or is it Wolfhound? I would like to know.
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-11-2006 | 09:36 AM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
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RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
T7 claimed we was "paid" to overcharge muzzleloading rifles and supports Randy in publicly announcing that he overcharges muzzleloading rifles.
So I guess, its just the lawyers paying him. He, He, He. Are they going to defend him to? Wolfhound? Do you really think Randy is proving anything in favor of the lawyer's case(s) when he overcharges muzzleloaders and "tests" them?
Happy Hunting, Phil
So I guess, its just the lawyers paying him. He, He, He. Are they going to defend him to? Wolfhound? Do you really think Randy is proving anything in favor of the lawyer's case(s) when he overcharges muzzleloaders and "tests" them?
Happy Hunting, Phil
You are some kind of"reaching character"Phil!
Please copy & paste where I said Randy is being "paid" to test any rifle with a higher-than-recommended charge? Answering - even testing a Savage rifle does not have to be served via a paycheck. It's quite possible that Randy wants to keep that Savage job window" open -- thus offering them information on their behalf - or (not likely).... Toby's behalf.
I said Randy has been asked to contribute his findings -- serving as a gun tech/authority himself.
I also said gun techs use protective measures when testing.
Get your sentences straight Phil! Don't read between the lines on this issue. Take the gray area out & keep it back & white.
03-11-2006 | 09:56 AM
#47
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,470
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
ORIGINAL: Triple Se7en
Please copy & paste where I said Randy is being "paid" to test any rifle with a higher-than-recommended charge?
Please copy & paste where I said Randy is being "paid" to test any rifle with a higher-than-recommended charge?
In response to:
Honestly, I don't see, and i think you would agree, any useful purpose in Randy orToby, deliberately loading any of their muzzleloaders, Savage or otherwise, with loads which are prohibited by the manufacturer. It is a terrible example and a complete abandonment of the responsibility both bear as respected, knowledgeable, individuals in the sport of muzzleloading.
You replied:
No I'm not suddenly "sucking-up" to Randy. But until/if he arrives here to defend himself -- Toby included, then I will defend the folks who are paid to make sure that safety/testing measures should not be confused with your range/hunting experiences.
Now, Im sorry. But I can only take this to mean that Randy was "paid" to overcharge his muzzleloader in order to make me safe. Later, I find out it has nothing to do with my safety, but that the people doing the paying are lawyers who need his corroboration to win lawsuit(s) against BPI.
Happy Hunting, Phil
03-11-2006 | 11:44 AM
#48
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 714
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From:
RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
ORIGINAL: Pglasgow
Must be a cash cow. I wonder why the lawyers didn't hire an engineering firm to test random samples of the rifles for defects? Seems like they are going out of their way to use someone like Randy instead.
Don't you think that the Law firm wouldwant, need, and expect analysis in favor of the plaintiff? I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if its always the shooter's fault, there will be no more money for Randy from the Law firm.
Talk about weaseling.
Here is the timeline.
Bdeather says Randy made the statement that he has often exceeded Savage's safe loads.
T7 says that Randy was wearing "full body protection", making it OK.
I voice my dissapproval of Randy making a public announcement,as a leader, a person people look to for example, that he has deliberately loaded prohibited loads.
T7 claims its OK because Randy is "paid" to protect us.
I erringly assume Rifle Manufactures are paying Randy to overcharge their guns. Then say I don't buy it. I say if they (manufactures) pay him, it is more plausible that he is paid to promote product.
Wolfhound then says its just the lawyers paying him. Of course, I can only assume that the lawyers are paying Randyto overcharge muzzleloaders, because well, that is actually the topic I am discussing with T7 (Randy overcharging muzzleloaders and whether its OK).
Now Wolfhound claims that Randy doesn't overcharge muzzleloaders. Who has their story wrong? Is it Bdeather and T7? Or is it Wolfhound? I would like to know.
Happy Hunting, Phil
They pay him on a case by case basis. He sees the rifle, pictures of the injuries, andshooter statements for his opinion on whether or not it's user negligence. He also signs a confidentiality agreement so he can't talk about the specific cases. If they go to court then there's more involved.
Don't you think that the Law firm wouldwant, need, and expect analysis in favor of the plaintiff? I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to figure out that if its always the shooter's fault, there will be no more money for Randy from the Law firm.
And no Randy does not overcharge rifles.
Here is the timeline.
Bdeather says Randy made the statement that he has often exceeded Savage's safe loads.
T7 says that Randy was wearing "full body protection", making it OK.
I voice my dissapproval of Randy making a public announcement,as a leader, a person people look to for example, that he has deliberately loaded prohibited loads.
T7 claims its OK because Randy is "paid" to protect us.
I erringly assume Rifle Manufactures are paying Randy to overcharge their guns. Then say I don't buy it. I say if they (manufactures) pay him, it is more plausible that he is paid to promote product.
Wolfhound then says its just the lawyers paying him. Of course, I can only assume that the lawyers are paying Randyto overcharge muzzleloaders, because well, that is actually the topic I am discussing with T7 (Randy overcharging muzzleloaders and whether its OK).
Now Wolfhound claims that Randy doesn't overcharge muzzleloaders. Who has their story wrong? Is it Bdeather and T7? Or is it Wolfhound? I would like to know.
Happy Hunting, Phil
Randy gets paid for his time and expenses. There have been instances he's felt it was shooter's error. And as for testing by an engineering firm, you really are reaching. So if you were a lawyer you'd buy a bunch of rifles (CVA won't just give them to you) for testing by an engineering company (yet another costly option). They're not suing for a recall. They are suing for personal injuries. The gun itself is sufficent for that. These cases aren't multi-million dollar cases. I think They go in the neighborhood of 2-4 hundred thousand.
And to my knowledge Randy has never overcharged a rifle.If he did he wouldn't be bragging about it. He's always preaching safety. I think the original poster has got their facts messed up.That sounds like something Toby's done.
03-11-2006 | 12:09 PM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,922
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RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
No I'm not suddenly "sucking-up" to Randy. But until/if he arrives here to defend himself -- Toby included, then I will defend the folks who are paid to make sure that safety/testing measures should not be confused with your range/hunting experiences.
Those twosentences of mine only means Randy was thereto provide information on his prior testings - not necessarily for money in this instance. This is all about guntesting that's done nowhere near your hunting woods or gun range. What Toby & Randy do as advisors and/or techsfor gun companies gives you no right to duplicate those loads with your rifle. That frame of mind could lead to abarrel burst -playing around with loads not recommended by the manufacturer or powder company.
Good grief man! Nowhere doeseither sentence state that Randy was paid by Savage to testany rifle. All it says was he was there to provide them with answers. Soin the meantime, I will defend his right to do so - because he tests MLs.Randy's own gun testings of various weaponsdoes not give you the right to assume he's been paid by all who seek him for information -also doesn'tgive you the rightto include any brand you want - orsay otherwise atany posting times like this thread here.
I gave you ageneralized statementof some work Randy does/done. I never said what brands are included in his gun tests & that he was paid for firing a Savage rifle in tests. Yes... I'm sure someone has paid Randy in the past for testing info. But where did I say "Savage'?????
What else are you going to twist around in this thread?
Remember what I said about black & white? Well... you ain't listening!!!
Those twosentences of mine only means Randy was thereto provide information on his prior testings - not necessarily for money in this instance. This is all about guntesting that's done nowhere near your hunting woods or gun range. What Toby & Randy do as advisors and/or techsfor gun companies gives you no right to duplicate those loads with your rifle. That frame of mind could lead to abarrel burst -playing around with loads not recommended by the manufacturer or powder company.
Good grief man! Nowhere doeseither sentence state that Randy was paid by Savage to testany rifle. All it says was he was there to provide them with answers. Soin the meantime, I will defend his right to do so - because he tests MLs.Randy's own gun testings of various weaponsdoes not give you the right to assume he's been paid by all who seek him for information -also doesn'tgive you the rightto include any brand you want - orsay otherwise atany posting times like this thread here.
I gave you ageneralized statementof some work Randy does/done. I never said what brands are included in his gun tests & that he was paid for firing a Savage rifle in tests. Yes... I'm sure someone has paid Randy in the past for testing info. But where did I say "Savage'?????
What else are you going to twist around in this thread?
Remember what I said about black & white? Well... you ain't listening!!!
03-11-2006 | 01:16 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,092
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RE: Randy Wakemans Statement
5th page of replies with only the one post from the original poster.
I will guarantee you thatWolfhound is telling it exactly like it is, to the best of his knowledge to do so. If he is wrong,many people are wrong including myself. I have NO firsthand knowledge of the incidents involving BPI products that have resulted in serious injuries. Do I believe those events have happened? Absolutely.
I will guarantee you thatWolfhound is telling it exactly like it is, to the best of his knowledge to do so. If he is wrong,many people are wrong including myself. I have NO firsthand knowledge of the incidents involving BPI products that have resulted in serious injuries. Do I believe those events have happened? Absolutely.