Troubles in cold weather
02-06-2006, 08:37 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: springfield, mo
Posts: 232
Troubles in cold weather
We go up to Iowa and hunt every year in december. This year when we were there the highs were like in the teens. We were having trouble loading our muzzleloaders. We shoot Omegas with Hornady Sabots. Why was it so hard to load our guns? What was shrinking?
02-06-2006, 08:50 PM
#2
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Troubles in cold weather
philip_grubaugh
Hornady sabots are really built for the Knight size bore. Your Omega and most TC bores are tighter (smaller) than the Knight bore. if you are using 45 cal bulletsyou can switch your Hornady sabots for MMP-HPH-24 or a Harvester regualar black sabot + Harvester even makes one a little thinner a "crush rib" - do not hink you would need that one.
What bullet are you shooting?
Here is the MMP site and some information...
http://www.mmpsabots.com/
The Hornady sabot you are shooting is most likely a HPH-12 for a .507/.508. if you look the 24 is thinner and will go down a tighter bore.
All of this information is relevent for 45 cal bullets being shot form a 50 cal ML - Since you didn't say which caliber or which bullet this is all a guess right now.
hope this helps - ask additional question if you need to...
Hornady sabots are really built for the Knight size bore. Your Omega and most TC bores are tighter (smaller) than the Knight bore. if you are using 45 cal bulletsyou can switch your Hornady sabots for MMP-HPH-24 or a Harvester regualar black sabot + Harvester even makes one a little thinner a "crush rib" - do not hink you would need that one.
What bullet are you shooting?
Here is the MMP site and some information...
http://www.mmpsabots.com/
HPH Sabots are designed and manufactured to enhance accuracy with hot
powder charges. In .50 caliber rifles and charges exceeding 100 grains of
Black powder or equivalent of Pyrodex or the higher or hotter powder charges
recommended by Savage for the 10ML-II.
If you experience accuracy problems with our standard sabots and hot
charges, the HPH Series is the sabot of choice for you.
The big difference between Black HPH12 and HPH24 is HPH24 is .002" smaller in loaded diameter. Loaded diameter is a sabot with a bullet inserted. With a .452 diameter bullet the HPH12 is .507-.508" diameter, the HPH24 is .505"-.506" diameter. If you have a tight loading rifle you may want to choose the HPH24. However, if you shoot a Savage muzzleloader with smokeless powder the HPH24 may not fit tight enough to consistently ignite the smokeless powder. The HPH12 is the stronger of the two sabots although both usually shoot very well with hot charges.
powder charges. In .50 caliber rifles and charges exceeding 100 grains of
Black powder or equivalent of Pyrodex or the higher or hotter powder charges
recommended by Savage for the 10ML-II.
If you experience accuracy problems with our standard sabots and hot
charges, the HPH Series is the sabot of choice for you.
The big difference between Black HPH12 and HPH24 is HPH24 is .002" smaller in loaded diameter. Loaded diameter is a sabot with a bullet inserted. With a .452 diameter bullet the HPH12 is .507-.508" diameter, the HPH24 is .505"-.506" diameter. If you have a tight loading rifle you may want to choose the HPH24. However, if you shoot a Savage muzzleloader with smokeless powder the HPH24 may not fit tight enough to consistently ignite the smokeless powder. The HPH12 is the stronger of the two sabots although both usually shoot very well with hot charges.
All of this information is relevent for 45 cal bullets being shot form a 50 cal ML - Since you didn't say which caliber or which bullet this is all a guess right now.
hope this helps - ask additional question if you need to...
02-06-2006, 09:00 PM
#3
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 21,193
RE: Troubles in cold weather
In cold weather I shoot the Thompson Center Mag Express Sabots out of my Black Diamond XR and have never ahd a problem. When loading anything else, I shoot a Harvester sabot. In my Green Mountian Barrels (which are the maker of Knight Rifle barrels) they do not seem very fussy about what I shoot out of them in cold weather or any weather for that matter.
The best thing to do is get a number of different sabots and projectiles and when your in the cold next time do some practice and see which loads the best and gives you the best accuracy.
The best thing to do is get a number of different sabots and projectiles and when your in the cold next time do some practice and see which loads the best and gives you the best accuracy.
02-06-2006, 09:22 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Troubles in cold weather
philip_grubaugh
Didn't think about this until I wrote the explanation... you said a 300 grain XTP, but is it a .430 - 44 cal XTP or a .452 - 45 cal XTP. The information below pertains to a .452 - 45 cal XTP.
Good to know you are shooting 50 cals. I really think your problem would be solved if you got yourself some HPH-24's from MMP or Harvester Regular Long sabots.
Call Connie at MMP she probably would even send you a few to sample. I am pretty confident you could shoot them in any weather.
If you are shooting regular XTP's it might be more economical to buy bulk boxes of Hornady bullets then but the sabot that will perform in your gun.
Another option is to buy Thompson Center bullets - they are XTP's using their name - they should come with the right size sabots....
http://www.tcarms.com/TC_HTML/access_proj_magexpress.htm
It still might be cheaper to purchase separately.
There might be somewhat of a problem purchasing TC Mag Express Sabots from a dealer - you might not get the same each time you order - TC is no different than any large business they want to make money so the company that produces sabots for less money TC will use, so sometimes you might get Harvester the next time it might be MMP.
Once again if the 24's do not go down with realative ease the Harvester "Crush Rib" is you next option.... it is the thinnest one out there right now.
Didn't think about this until I wrote the explanation... you said a 300 grain XTP, but is it a .430 - 44 cal XTP or a .452 - 45 cal XTP. The information below pertains to a .452 - 45 cal XTP.
Good to know you are shooting 50 cals. I really think your problem would be solved if you got yourself some HPH-24's from MMP or Harvester Regular Long sabots.
Call Connie at MMP she probably would even send you a few to sample. I am pretty confident you could shoot them in any weather.
If you are shooting regular XTP's it might be more economical to buy bulk boxes of Hornady bullets then but the sabot that will perform in your gun.
Another option is to buy Thompson Center bullets - they are XTP's using their name - they should come with the right size sabots....
http://www.tcarms.com/TC_HTML/access_proj_magexpress.htm
It still might be cheaper to purchase separately.
There might be somewhat of a problem purchasing TC Mag Express Sabots from a dealer - you might not get the same each time you order - TC is no different than any large business they want to make money so the company that produces sabots for less money TC will use, so sometimes you might get Harvester the next time it might be MMP.
Once again if the 24's do not go down with realative ease the Harvester "Crush Rib" is you next option.... it is the thinnest one out there right now.
02-07-2006, 06:35 AM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,236
RE: Troubles in cold weather
Plastic is actually a liquid and gets harder in colder temps.The rifling will cut it easier in warm weather. Friction is compounded as the tempdecreases and vice versa..... warmer bore means less friction.
02-07-2006, 06:36 AM
#7
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 96
RE: Troubles in cold weather
I live in a cold climate also and sabots loose their flexibility in the cold. Same for all lead bullets. lead is soft at room temperature, but when your hands are cold and the lube on the bullets is frozen to the point where it cracks off the bullet at the muzzle, I'm glad my CVA likes powerbelts.
02-07-2006, 07:52 AM
#8
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: Troubles in cold weather
grapeshot
Ya it gets down right chilly here in Idaho in November December also. Our ML hunt is near the middle of December and at 4/5000 feet it really gets cold. So far the sabots have functioned pretty well for us. As I havesaid before it really is a matter of getting the right sabot for the gun you are shooting. There are many different options and sizes out there for 45 cal bullets, the options decrease as you move away from the 45 cal.
Ya it gets down right chilly here in Idaho in November December also. Our ML hunt is near the middle of December and at 4/5000 feet it really gets cold. So far the sabots have functioned pretty well for us. As I havesaid before it really is a matter of getting the right sabot for the gun you are shooting. There are many different options and sizes out there for 45 cal bullets, the options decrease as you move away from the 45 cal.
