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AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

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AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Old 09-19-2005, 09:18 PM
  #1  
Fork Horn
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Default AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Yes I know, Illini's got ANOTHER dumb question about muzzleloading. Please bear with me guys. Which would you prefer based on ease-of-use and performance?
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:31 PM
  #2  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

First off, I would not use pellets. If I had an Omega and was going to shoot pellets, they would be Pyrodex Pellets because those are what Thompson Center recommends. There are advantages to all kinds of powder and disadvantages....

Triple Se7en powder is know to produce a hard crud ring at times in Omegas. It is necessary to swab the barrel sometimes between each shot. Some posters claim they have to wire brush the barrel between shots. You get a good clean burn with Triple Se7en which leaves very little fowling. Yet crud rings can be made less with a softer ignition.

Pyrodex Pellets are the old stand by. They work great. You still have to swab the barrel. Usually the fowling is soft and will swab right out of the barrel. Pyrodex leaves more fowling in the barrel and takes longer to clean the rifle some say after you're done shooting at the range. They are recommended by the factory reps.

American Pioneer Powder Sticks leave the least of all in the fowling department. Some people are not comfortable with the way the sticks are made because of the lack of uniformity they find in them. Chunks are missing off some of the sticks. When you're looking to stay consistent for accuracy you do not want large differences in anything I guess. APP is also said to be very moisture sensitive.

Pinnacle also came out with pre measured I was told but have never seen them or read of any posts where they were used.

I am not sure if Black Mag3 has pellets, but in FFFg loose form many Omega shooters are getting some good results with it. Loose powder is not really harder to use then pellets. You can pre measure out the loose powder into speed loaders for hunting purposes and load as fast as you can with pellets... I guess the choice is up to you.
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Old 09-19-2005, 09:36 PM
  #3  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Well I'm not trying to change the subject, because I'd still like to get some more opinions on pre-measured, but what is the best loose powder then, or is it Pyrodex?
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:29 PM
  #4  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Since your going to be shooting an Omega, then you will have to adopt a good swabbing habit. For that reason TripleSe7en loose powder is where I would start. I would load 100 grains of it and a 250 grain Shockwave and have at her. Then swab the barrel good and do it all over again. I think you will be more then happy with the accuracy.

I personally shoot a lot of Goex. I shoot Goex because I shoot on average 5 times a week or more. Goex is cost effective. It is very dirty many people think but if you swab the barrel when needed I find it no more fowl then any of the other powders. For many years I shot Pyrodex and then Triple Se7en came out. I have a few rifles that really like Triple Se7en. I have other rifles that really like Pyrodex P. And still other rifles that think Goex is still the top powder there is. I guess what I am trying to say is you might have to experiment to see which powder your rifle likes and which powder your climate seems to agree with. But if I were starting out with that rifle it would be Triple Se7en. And I think you will see that the Shockwaves can be pushed pretty hard. I've pushed them in m Black Diamond XR all the way to 120 grain. I did not see any reason to shoo that much powder so I cut them back to 100 grains. The recoil was better, the accuracy was excellent, and the projectile had all the power I needed for my hunting situation...
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Old 09-19-2005, 11:56 PM
  #5  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

You are going to have to shoot some to see what your rifle likes. I am one of the guys that has not figured out how to make Tripple Seven work in my Omega. I have a real time with the crud ring which simple spit patch swabs will not remove. Wet patches and wire brushes are required in my rifle. I got real good results with both loose and pellet Pyrodex and the fouling is heavy but soft. I get real good results with the ascorbic acid based powders like Black Mag'3 which is my personal favorite but it is difficult to find and expensive when you do find it. I have some Goex Pinnacle which I have not shot enough to comment on yet and American Pioneer shoots well for me in the fffg form. These powders will leave very little fouling and multiple shots without a swab between are possible. Where you are; if it were me just starting with the Omega I would probably use Pyrodex and after developing some confidence in the rifle try some of the others. Tripple Seven makes high initial pressure and in short barrel rifles shoots very good. In my Omega I did not get the high velocity that the heavy recoil experienced with 777makes you think you should get; all I got was a bad crud ring and a heavy sharp recoil. Accuracy is not a factor in the Omega as almost everything I have shot will give you decent accuracy. The rifle is very accurate with almost anything from 200gr. to 400gr. bullets. I do not shoot maximum loads and usually hunt with 100gr. powder loads or even some at 90gr. (expecially with Black Mag'3).
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:16 PM
  #6  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Alright, I'm aware of the slightly higher price of Triple 7 over Pyrodex. However, I'm also aware of the "crud ring" experienced with the Triple 7. What is so bad about the Pyrodex pellets, especially for a starter like myself? Is there a crud ring with Pyrodex? If not, I really see no reason for why I would not shoot Pyrodex at least until I get my feet wet. Maybe the ability to clean the bore after using Triple 7 with water is a major plus, but I don't mind using some solvent.
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Old 09-20-2005, 09:40 PM
  #7  
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

Of course there is crud build up from Pyrodex Pellets or loose. The advantage is, the fowling is soft and will usually swab right out of the barrel. Also if you shoot Pyrodex pellets and Triple Se7en pellets, there is no advantage in power between them They reduced the size of the Triple Se7en pellets so they are approximately equal in strength to those of Pyrodex.

And granted you can clean up Triple Se7en with simple water, but you can do the same to Pyrodex with simple water and a little dish soap. There is just more fowling with the Pyrodex so it will take a little more effort to make sure the bore of your rifle is clean.

Also both of them shooting will leave plastic, possible lead, and copper fowling in the bore of the barrel. Simple water will remove the Triple Se7en but you still have to use solvent patches to get out the other kinds of fowling.

So the advantages between Pyrodex over Triple Se7en... well Pyrodex is recommended by the maker of your rifle. It is made to shoot three of the pellets with certain projectiles. Also there is a cost savings by shooting Pyrodex over Triple Se7en. The fowling of Pyrodex is not as hard and will come out with a simple wet swab. Pyrodex makes big stinky clouds of white smoke when you shoot it... that is a big plus to all of us junior pyromaniacs, but Pyrodex might take you a little longer to clean out of the barrel.

I shoot Goex, considered by many (not myself) as the most dirty of all powders. It does take longer to clean the barrel and swab the fowling.. my attitude is, so what. I am out there having fun. If it takes me a little longer to clean my rifle, then it takes me a little longer...

You should shoot what you feel most comfortable with... Try some Pyrodex and Triple Se7en and see what you like the best. I personally would shoot loose powder but to each their own... Good luck and be sure and keep us posted as to how you like shooting your rifle. I have a feeling you're going to be hooked big time in this sport.
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Old 09-24-2005, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: AP Sticks vs. 777 Pellets vs. Pyrodex Pellets

I always have good results with 2 or 3 777 pellets and Powerbelt bullets. Using 348 grain hollowpoints this year, 2 shots, 2 deer.
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