No wonder your homeowners question everything you do, sounds like you're a cheap sucker who that wants to screw others if possible. Waitresses at restaurant pool their money because of people like you. Maybe they shouldn't, in hopes that one day you might leave them a dollar. I'm sure (because of your generosity) you go to different establishments--if not--perhaps you should think about---b/c I know the girls I dated in college that were servers were vindictive about those things---spitting and all--get it.

guides and servers are in kind of the same boat when it comes to tips---they don't get paid a lot--but have a chance to up their earnings based on their job performance (with normal customers). Anyway, keep up the good work, you must be a ray of sunshine in the lives of those around you-----

hb

ROFLMAO @ hillbillyhunter, I see I'm not the only person who thought that exact same sentiment. Truth be known, the ENTIRE country should have to work for about half their usual income and then be dependent upon tips to make up the difference. Some attitudes would change, those more deserving and hardworking might make closer too what they are worth and the rest "the free riders" would end up on skid row.

I don't know of to many guides that are paid very well (from their simple daily income by the outfitter they work for). Most are paid $50-$100 a day and depend on tips for making the job worth it for them. I know I would NOT bust my azz for some un-appreciative slob to make me do all the work and then in the end stiff me for the sweat and worn bootleather.

Like I said, when you deal with quality/first rate outfitters you will QUICKLY know whether you took care of business properly by the fact that you either did or did NOT get invited back or shown an special courtesy!
RA

Comparing it to a waiter/waitress is not fair, the wages these folks get is legally below minimum wage because of the tips.

Speaking about the millions the outfitter is making, sure it looks like a lot when you do the math, 4k/person * 8 people/week * 12 weeks (estimated numbers) = $384,000.

What do you think all this COSTS him? He has to pay:

- guide fees (100-150/day/guide)
- feed you and the guides
- gas for trucks/atv etc
- food for horses/mules
- vet bills
- taxes
- license fees/tresspass fees etc.
- equipment repair/replacement on trucks/atv/horses
- insurance on his business and guides

Now add in that he only makes money for those couple of months, he has to make enough money to carry over to the next years hunting season.

I am sure outfitters do ok, I doubt they get rich.

As for guides, say you are great, you get $200/day, 7 day hunts, say 3months worth, that's roughly $17K. Sure they can get an "off season" job, but how much do you think a job pays that you are not going to keep long term or at least need all of the fall off from?

Ain't none of them getting rich folks.

I know its not quite the same. I was merely commenting on bigred's treatment of waitresses as well.


Also, you must remember that most guides get paid with 1099 income as opposed to a w-2--that means they have to pay out 15+% in fica taxes--which is additionally tough when making that amount of money. of course they also get to write off their expenses, but having those expenses hurts them worse then the deductions help.

Like I said before...I do tip
But I just don't see why everyone feels so sorry for guides.
THEY PICKED THAT JOB.
THEY KNEW THE OPTIONS
Tip them or don't tip them...your choice BUT don't feel obligated!

Hey Bob NH I did some quick numbers from what you posted


guide fees (100-150/day/guide) .....................21600
- feed you and the guides- ...............................15840
- gas for trucks/atv etc .....................................2880
- food for horses/mules ......................................9400
- vet bills ......................................5000
- taxes (we all pay these so removed them).........0
- license fees/tresspass fees etc. guess?...........25000
- equipment repair/replacement on trucks/atv/horses .......20000
- insurance on his business and guides[/quote] ......4000
I threw in a Cook .................................................. ......................7200

Total ....................110920
Buffer $$$ ..................20000
New total ..............130920

Lets see subtract 130920 from your $384000 ----->>>>> $253080
I would bet 80% of the people on this board don't make that.
Even if we made a 50 K error they are still making 200K

So who do we feel sorry for The outfitter?
The guide who should be getting more?
Or you and I who keep going back every year and over paying to begin with?[:@]

ok guys i wasnt gonna reply cause like i said everyone has their opinions but i think there might be a misconception about what i wrote or sounded like, but i feel i must reply.

some of you (not mentioning any names) feel that i am a cheap sucker and "am a ray of sunshine" to be around. ok, well what i wrote might sound (to me) that i am a miserable old fart and that i hate my job and i refuse to tip, well, the first part is not true, i love my job, i like what i do, and besides if i wasnt a "ray" to be around and if i was trying to "screw" people out of money, why am i still in business after 25 years in the same city of 80K population?, word travels fast you know!! But i must be doing something right. last people i saw not being a ray to be around and screw you out of money have left this town and moved to another city to pursure their "fly by night" carrer. now having said that, i will tell you that i used to tip where ever i went but i have stopped that, you know why. i have read Outdoor's reply and like what he said that tips are nice but NOT REQUIRED, but for some reason in "some" occupations, tips seem to be EXPECTED. why is this?? we all work, i am assuming anyways, and we for the most part, all of our jobs are preforming some kind of "service" for a "customer", so i ask, just because we are all not guides, waiter/waitresess, or whoever else expects a tip, why is it that we do not get tips too? i dont get it. are we not waiting/helping/guiding/working for people? what about the person works at McDonalds taking your order, they are waitng on you, take your order, bring you food to you, but we dont give them a tip, well why not???? opps, i forgot, what about the person behind the counter at McD's that cooked your burger, better tip them too!!!! oh man, i guess should tip the truck driver that delivered the food to the fast food joint cause without them i couldnt be eating my fries and big mac right now. i could go on, but i think you get the picture, just something for you to think about. i also like what liquidorange says at the end of his reply and he quotes " a tip should be a deserved part of the service not always mandatory". Now, back to something else someone wrote about people get below minimum wage because the tips make up for it, well i dont know how it works in the states, but where i live you "must" make the minimum wage, and tips are on top of that. to me, who would want to take a cut in wage because tips will make up for it???? i think they are losing money in my perspective, but hey, what do i know. i may be reading or interpurting that reply wrong, but i think if you have current set minimum wage, i thnk it is leagally wrong to pay them less than that, allthough i could be wrong on that. as you all know i own a construction company, once in a while we do out of town work, now lets say i send my guys to do a job, and i as allways, give them the company visa to pay for whatever, one being i pay for their meals. myself, and i think i am not alone on this but when the final meal bill comes to the table, there is a spot on the visa reciept that asks "tip", would you not be a little upset paying for a tip to a meal that you didnt even eat? of course it is up to my workers to leave a tip from thier own pocket if they so choose too. now i dont know if they leave a tip or not, but lets jst say they didnt, should the server now on the next day they return "spit" in thier food because thay didnt leave a tip?? i dont know maybe i am getting off subject now but as you can see there are a million of different factors out there on or about tipping.

in closing i would just like to say a couple of last remarks, first being to the one who thinks that i am not a ray to be around, i also see that apparently i do not treat waiter/waitresess nicely, well i must say that i do and i say my please and thank you's during my stay, and i am polite to everyone i deal with. On to another note, why say that using a waiter/waitress is not "fair" to compare to a guide??? last time i looked a JOB is a JOB is a JOB, but i might be wrong in that too cause a guide must be more of a JOB than a sever i guess, but to me they are JOBS!!!And lastly (for now anyways), like i have said before, i hope some people agree with me, and some will not, these are just our opinions, i just hope i shed a little "ray" to some of you that feel a "need" to tip only "some" people of "certain" occupations.

Thank You

10-4

Last time I went to Alberta, between all services, I tipped over $800.
Some still send me Chirstmas Cards!

Hey.
I also wasn't going to post anything, but couldn't help it..

Why do we tip?, I don't know about you, but I tip someone that is doing for me something I am to damn lazy to do, or uncapable of doing.
Tip, don't tip.. who cares.. My guides will bust thier a$$es for you regardless.

I don't know where you get these figures from about how much an outfitter makes.. but I want to be that outfitter.
You must remember that most outfitters/guides do this job because they love to, not because they have to. My guides will take time off work to be out in the bush for a couple weeks to look after your needs. I pay them a $1000.00 for your 6 day hunt they prob lose money being there. figure this out and see if the math adds up to 200gs..
I am offering a bear hunt for $2400.
I have 8 hunters per week.. $19200 that is if camp fills up. no remove every expense you can think of, then remove more
max of 40 hunters, but typicaly 8 to 16 hunters
and a very limited season. In Alberta we Have NO ranch hunting for big game animals, so we have to hunt the particular seaon that the governmeent sets out.
There are some real big outfitters out there making the big money, but who wants to hunt with these guys ..
People will book with a real big guy because he has a big outfit, but what people don't realize is that alot of these big guys never make it to camp, they have a half a dozen or more camps going at one time. they hire guys to run them hoping that they will do right by them. But with the smaller guys like me, I have a zone that is vurtually unhunted by anyone but myself, loads of bears, I run the camp, I am there all week, if you have an issue with something, I am there to resolve it. We run a very personal camp, fun and light hearted. everyone gets there hands dirty, including, and Especially me.
Slamfire was dead on when he said give them something, guys really appreciate it when you tip them with equipment. I had a fellow give me a chronograph that attaches to the end of my bow.. works real good.
Most people don't tip the outfitter, because he is the one making the huge money(apparently)... but do consider tipping the guides, it gets harder and harder to find good guides when they get stiffed by hunters over and over again. I have had guys request a guide, but guides refused them because of the no tip issue.

I could alway charge the hunter more, and pay the guides better..lol

I promise though.. if you don't tip, they won't spit on your bear...