I am happy and satified with the way I hunt and the animals I take. For those other guys, I couldn't care less. Although a trophy head or horns mean less than nothing to me, for those who think thats important, I think as others do that farm raised animals have no place in the record books unless they set up a set of books just for that. If they did I quess the prize should go to the guy who raised it not the guy who was quareteed a kill. I would not expect a book entree if I went to a farm yard and shot a hog eating from a trough.

You can always tell the guys who cant afford a hunt in XYZ for big 123 animals yet want to, from the guys who either can't or don't care to. The first ones are the ones to complain about it the most! Simple jealousy...

THE first rule of trophy hunting ANYTHING is 1). Hunt where such animals exist!

I have had the God given luck of hunting just such places. The Encinitos in south TX twice in 99 (Real Tree was there between my trips), The Gila/Apache area in NM (Real Tree and Mossy Oak both hunt this area each season for the amazing bulls there) and the largest private lease in Kansas just outside of Manhattan, KS (could look across the valley and see the ranch where Real Tree hunts when in KS and the place were Bill Jordan took that monster bowkill down in the cooley a few years ago). And I will be honest with you guys, I look forward to hunting other such places. I don't look down on anyone or think I am any better than anyother hunter, just luckier to be able to partake in such experiences. I am GLAD for the next guy to be blessed with the luck to pull the trigger on such amazing animals. GOOD FOR THEM!!! Sure I wish it were me, but if it can't be I'm glad someone else took that animal instead of it being shoot over a headlight, run-over by a car or the horns cutup to make knife handles out of by some redneck who thinks B&C is what comes between A&D!

I will admit that I haven't hunted behind a fence yet, but after hunting on The Encinitos for one season (some of its neighbors were) I can see where humongous tracks of land indeed NEED to be fenced for proper management. If you have never hunted un-molested animals on a large tract of private land you simply are missing out and I hope that EVERYONE reading this post gets the opportunity at least once in their lives.

Most guys I know that hunt on public land or small leases with to many hunters are happy when they just see an occasional buck. Furthermore the time between true trophy sightings are measured with a calendar instead of hours, days or months. Being BRUTALLY honest, there aren't alot of guys who stay in the sport for life under such circumstances. How much fun is it to sit on a stand for 20 years and see 1 buck per season or even get excited about simply seeing a deer ever now and then? New hunter recruitment and retainment under such situations is nil at best. And you certainly won't learn much about animals with such limited exposure. How can you predict seasonal patterns and shifts when you "might" see all of 20 deer per season (and then most of those are high-tailing it thru the woods on the escape) vs someone who has spent decades watching and studying THOUSANDS of animals in that same period of time?

I guess some of you are jealous of those of us who go too places like southern CA, TX or FLA for bass? Like I said the first rule of trophy ANYTHING is being where those trophies are. I don't care WHERE you fish above the Mason-Dixon line, you will NOT break the worlds record for bass (smallmouth or large for that matter). And likewise for whitetails. The next #1 isn't coming from the public woods of PA or some over crowded lease in southern MS.

With all that being said, DON'T get me wrong I am NOT saying anything bad about your trophies. CONGRATULATIONS and I am happy for you. Just don't get pissy and call others names because they had the abilities to get something much larger than what you can realistically hope to take on "typically average" hunting range.

Just don't knock what you might not fully understand!
RA

I don't think anyone was speaking on jealous terms. What is to be jealous of? Just because some have the pocket book and some don't.

I think we were talking about hunting shows and the emphasis on trophys and the fact that if you have the money you can get the trophy. It isn't about skill or luck, it is about money! I don' begrudge anyone on thier fortune, hunting has become a money sport. The shows prove it. You see very few shows if any on public land and a hunt on chance, that most hunters face each fall. It would be difficult to make such a show on public land as the opportunities don't present themselves and you actually have to hunt.

I also consider myself a redneck! And I know what B&C means. Those that couldn't get into the B&C go to SCI! One was created for those that didn't make the other. All of those places you mentioned are managed for trophy animals. Raised and managed like cattle. If you have the money you can buy a ranch, cull the poor, feed and cross breed the best and sell trophy hunts. Now go to public land and shoot a trophy, thats hunting and mostly luck. It happens every fall. The new record whitetail from Iowa, last year, wasn't shot on a managed farm or ranch.

Show me THE first nationally successful show that features JoeBob BambiBuster sittin on a bucket in the state forest in PA on opening day watchin lil deer run allover the place. Whats more, show them whackin all the lil spikes and other year and halfers that stroll by.

How much fun would that be and how are their ratings going to be? Your right its ALL about the money. The selling and the commercialism is whey corporate America is behind such shows. They want the money that the viewing public has. EXACT same thing behind everything on TV be it NASCAR, NFL or even figure skating. Its ALL about the money. The rancher in TX is loosin his ass on the cattle and his grandfather sold the petroleum rights too the land 40 years ago, so how is he supposed to make ends meet? Why not invest in the deer and hope to reap the benefits?

Like it or not, trophies (too most of those that grow them) are simply comoditees that are to be bought and sold too the highest bidder. Thats the nature of the beast now adays!
RA

I think that is pretty much what everyone was saying. Yes the shows wouldn't sell **** if they didn't hunt or kill trophys. But that is why I don't subsribe to the Outdoor Channel any more. I got tired of it! I also don't need some one telling me what gadget to use to be succesful or what is a trophy and what isn't. I think the wrong image is being portrayed. I also wouldn't spend $10,000 to hunt a managed whitetail. But I don't fault those that do. Good for them, I will keep my $10,000 in the bank or go back to Africa.

RandyL, I hear you and agree. RedAllison its your type of attitude that just pisses me off.[:@] I live and hunt in Idaho, we have good elk and deer herds here in Idaho, but very few trophy animals. You remind me of a guy I met a few years ago while swimming in some local hot springs near Idaho Falls. He was a bussiness owner from New York, and he was just passing through on his way to yellowstone park to do some snowmobiling. Anyway we started talking hunting & fishing, I told him that I hunted everything that I could hunt in Idaho, but my passion was elk hunting with a bow. He then told me strait out that he was huge elk hunter too, and that not many people were better elk hunters than him because he had killed two record book bulls. He told me that he applied every year for all the trophy states, and he hunts every year because he payed big money to hunt private ranches and indian reservations that have huge bulls, when he doesn't draw a tag. I ask him if he had ever hunted Idaho before, and his reply was no the best elk hunters wouldn't want to waist their time hunting here in Idaho because there were not record book bulls to be shot. I told him that I didn't know that to be a great elk hunter or the best elk hunter that you had to only hunt trophy bulls. I always thought that anybody that punched their elk tag with any elk, every year or almost every other year is canadate for a good elk hunter. I know that made him mad, but I quickly turned around and stroked his ego, saying he must be a good hunter if he killed two B&C bulls. I then (for my fun) asked him for advice on elk calling and tatics. I asked him strait out if he knew how to call in elk. He said yes all good elk huntes know how to call in a bull elk. Well it just so happens that I always have at least a dozen or so elk calls and a bugle tube in my car or truck. I have about tripple that at home but anyway I saw a nervous look on his face when I hoped out of the pool and told him I was going to get my calls so he could help me inprove my elk calling skills. After all he made it clear that he was one of the very best elk hunters, so I thought I could learn someting from him. Now I don't claim to be the best elk caller on earth, there are guys better than me, but I do compeate in elk calling competitions and I am not afraid to show off a little and have some fun. So after I let out a call or two and then handed over a bugel tube and a brand new diaphram (I opened it in front of him so that way he couln't use the excuse of not wanting to get any germs from me) he said "well I actually don't do any of the calling because thats what I pay my guide for". I then asked if his two B&C bulls were killed on guided hunts. I knew that answer of course, but I was have fun making him squirm. I then told him that I though he was a wanabe hunter that needed a guide to have any success, and that he should think about what he is saying before he tells me that because I only elk hunt in my home state of Idaho that I am not or will ever will be a great elk hunter. I know that I made him mad, but I didn't care at the time because I too was mad. He seemed to leave very fast and be on his way. I was a jerk, but I also was trying to express a point to him. I am sure my size helped too with him leaving quickly, I am a teddy bear at heart, and don't have a mean bone in my body. But with being 6'3" 250# people don't see that when I get a little angry. I wish I would have thought of and told him this. If I were to say that I was the greatest or one of the very best golf players in the world and told everyone that I could beat their score. Then go out and pay Tigger Woods to play for me until the 17 hole. Then I would take over and and finish the game with the 18th hole. I of course would beat everyone and claim that I was the best and deserve a award of some sort. Well people would laugh their butts off and tell me that I was a fake. But we as hunters do that all the time, the guide goes out and scouts all year round, he finds the best spots, he know the patterns of the game animals, and knows how big and where the animals are at most times. Then we pay him to hand over this info to us so we can go where he says to go and pull the trigger. I am not trying to diss a guided hunt at all. But for someone to say their the best hunter because they have shot a trophy animal. Or to say I am JEALOUS of someone else, because I have not hunted a trophy area for a trophy animals is just plain stupid. If you go back and look at my past posts, you will see a post on how big is big to you and a elkoholics post and then you might understand that my greatest thrill on earth. One that I look foward too each and every year is to hunt average size bull elk here in my home state of Idaho on my own with a bow in my hand. Yes I would like to harvest a trophy animal, but then again I want to just hunt elk all the time, no matter of the size. They might not be trophy record book bulls as far as B&C goes, but they are trophys to me and I wouldn't change it for the world.

Good points RandyL and Idaho. I agree. I am not into trophy hunting. If I were though I would want to see the store bought trophys kept seperate from the earned ones. One other point, anyone loosing there but on cattle now is a darn poor operater.

The show where the guys get out on public land and kill monster bulls and bucks is called EASTMAN'S HUNTING JOURNAL..

These guys hunt mostly public land and bring home the big boys because they know how to HUNT!

Great story Idaho, I loved it. That is the arrogance of some hunters. I just can't figure it all out. We all love to hunt, call ourselves hunters, live and breath it. Our own worst enemy is ourselves and attitudes by other hunters.

It is a competition thing, I often think it stems from the days of hunter gatherers, fitest survive, and best hunter puts food on the table. The commerialization and money makes me sick. It is killing plain and simple. A guided and outfitted hunt would be great every fall, no packing, no cooking, no tending horses,no scouting, and no gutting. Just write out a check, follow your guide, pick out what you want to shoot and pull the trigger. But that is not what I choose to do. I don't even care if I shoot an elk, or deer, or antelope. It's the plaining, scouting, application/license draw anticipation, time spent with friends and family, time at the range, time reloading and working up loads, and then the kill which is just icing on the cake.

Good story Idaho--please let me know if I ever piss you off--(grin)
hb



I think that you're assumption about other hunters is definately off the mark. perhaps you were just talking about the one that you know..All the ones that I know are greatful for every moment that they get to spend in the outdoors. It's not really a sport to some of us--it's a way of life. We gauge ourselves by the time we've spent, the knowledge we've gained, and the experiences we've had and shared. No one knows the animals he/she hunts better than the ones that have pursued them tirelessly and have learned on their own thru trial and error with perhaps occasional help from those who are even more experienced. The help I'm describing does not come in the form of a telephone number and a price list. I have no animosity toward you--I disagree with you--perhaps you should try a do-it -yourself hunt with some friends to see if there is another level of excitement that you can achieve--I'm sure that ther would be many people on here that would help you with the research and decisions that you would have to make. Your reward would consist of a lot more than just a head on the wall.

hb

ps. Jealousy is not an option when you live in the best outdoor show you have ever seen.