Duffy

How brave the bow hunter, who sits at his keyboard and hunts all manner of wild and dangerous beasts.

Robin

ths78

I'd like to shoot him head on with a Garrett's 540 gr. Hammerhead at about 100 yds. and watch him get knocked off his feet as the bullet went in through his chest and out through his a**!

red river

A cape buffalo would soak up a slug from a 45-70 like a sponge and then run someone over. In my opinion the 45-70 is a large, slow, sloppy, outdated caliber. I videoed a fellow a few years ago shooting a treed black bear with one and it did not even break the skull. Why he choose to shoot it in the head is any ones guess but that bear came out of the tree like a freight train and was killed by a .44mag on the ground. I'll leave the old buffalo gun for the history books.

Surestrike

Redriver,
I agree with you if you go to K-mart to buy your watered down 300gr hollow point ammunition then by golly it's a pretty weak round.
If you buy some of the good stuff from Buffalo Bore or Garret or reload then a 45-70 gives up very little to a .458 win mag. Buff Bores loads push a 405 gr bullet at 2100 FPS and with soft point bullets I've seen penetrait end for end on Black Bear and a big one to boot.
Oh and just by the way go over to Thefiringline.com and look at the three Cape Buffalo that Rich killed with his 45-70 in Tanzania this summer. One of which was a one shot kill and all three of which got full penetraition including exit wounds. A modern firearm chambered in 45-70 can take some ungodly huge loads and actually puts out more horse power than many of the old 45 cal "Heavy rifles" of yesterday.
The reason that Winchester and Remington won't put out these loadings is that much like the .45 Colt (which in a modern pistol can outproduce a .44 mag)the major companies are affraid to put out a load that will damage an older original firearm. The older .45-70's weren't built to take the pressures of the modern ones.

Edited by - surestrike on 03/06/2002 22:15:20

red river

Good info, I never knew that a 45-70 could produce those numbers. The ballistics reference guide that I use is from Gun Digest and it list the 45-70 with 405 grain as having a velocity of only 1330fps at the muzzle. The ft pounds is also fairly light as it is listed at 1590 at the muzzle. If you compare the 45-70 using those numbers with that of say a .416 weatherby shooting a 400 grain bullet there is a big difference. My chart lists the .416 as having 2700fps at the muzzle with a massive 6474 pounds of energy.

Surestrike

Redriver,
With all that said in defense of the .45-70 I use a .458 Lott for my heavy rifle. I do however use a .45-70 in a Marlin guide gun as a primary and back up rifle for our hog and bear hunts in TX and NM. I reload out of the speer manual and they show a 1800 or 1900 FPS load for the Marlin with a 405 gr and I'll tell you what if you want to really get ballistic look at the loads available for a ruger #1 or a bolt action mauser in 45-70.
I also agree with you that the .416 in any of the three current comercial chamberings are pretty darn hard to beat. Great amounts of energy and flat shooting maybe the perfect all around dangerous game rifle. Having the ability to take that 200 yd shot on Buff or knock em down in the thick stuff is pretty darn cool!

BUFFALO HUNTER

haveing hunted cape buff several times. and killing several over the years. I would like to ask you this question Sure strike & red river: where did you or did you ever find an PH that let you take a 200 yarder at a cape buffalo. regardless of the caliber you were toteing. BTW more than 1/2 of the buffs I 1 shotted with a old 45-70. Trouble with getting imfo. out of books and making comments based on them is someone is bound to come along that ACTUALLY did it, and call your bluff.
Also I wonder about the comment that went along the lines of a 45-70 not being able to break the skull of a bear. Then agreeded upon by the other of you. Because a factory loaded 1300+ fps 45-70 is so low end. What is a 22 long rifle in the way of a powerful caliber? yet countless steers, hogs,etc. have fallen prey to a well placed head shot with that itty bitty load

Edited by - buffalo hunter on 03/08/2002 08:18:09

Surestrike

Buffalo Hunter,
First off read my comment, I agreed with red River that the factory loaded 45-70 stuff was weak. I never gave any inclination what so ever about the bear skull thing. However having been a guide who specializes in bear hunting for the last oh 10 years I'd have to say that I've seen stranger things happen. As far as calling my bluff. Well bud once again a little reading comprehension is in order. I said that The current chamberings in .416 are flater shooting and could give the ability to take that 200 yd shot. I never infered that I'd done it myself. I have worked for several PH's expatriots one from Rohdesia and another from Tanazania. I am told that in some areas such as the Okovango(yes I know the Okavongo is in Botswana) that longer shots of 100 + yds do occur and I've even heard stories of longer shots from the pros themselves. I will not however post my opions about .416's and 45-70's with out contacting you first and getting approval would that that make you happy?
Also if you notice I gave no expert opion about Buffalo hunting itself only the Rifles that I have used in the past. So my friend your comment about "Calling my bluff" is way out of line as there is no bluff involved.
Further more If you had read my post you'd see that I defend the .45-70 as a close personal freind of mine killed Three (3) Buffalo with his in Tanzania last summer. And by golly one of those shots was taken at over a hundered yards. I guess his PH just trusted his ability to shoot. So I don't really see the premise of your post other than you want every body to know that you have the time and the money to to have hunted a Buffalo. Good for you I'm happy for ya. Now read the darn post before you go accusing me of B.S.ing anybody.<img src=icon_smile_angry.gif border=0 align=middle>

Suresrtike

BUFFALO HUNTER

SS : I did read your post and though most 99% of my reply was intended for RR . I stand by my comment in regard to your worth of the low end loads for the 45-70. you posted you agreeded with RR on his opinion of them. His comment was &quot;couldn't penetrate a bear skull&quot;.
my intent and I'm certain you realize it was/is &quot;that is pure hogwash&quot;. Even the lowly 22 owns the pizzaz to do that.
and yes i've been capie hunting not once but 6 times. In all of those trips where I harvested over a dozen capes . i have not met a PH that would &quot;trust&quot; anyone's shooting prowness on dangerous game. rather they put their client as close as possible, usually in realm of the buff a long shot is 40 yds.

Hk45USP

&quot;CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG?&quot;
-Rodney King (1991)
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