for all you wolf lovers
 

i read in a previous post that wolves are so great and they don't SPORT KILL well here is some pretty good info to show that to be dead wrong

[link]http://www.natureswolves.com/[/link]

[link]http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/wolf_pics.htm[/link]

[link]http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats%20New_6.htm[/link]

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

And we're supposed to believe that wolves are just big dogs? After reading the articles on those sites, I can see why we killed most of them off in the U.S. Let the government release them in CO. The first time they wonder into our camp will be their last. I'm not the kind of guy who enjoys packing several hundred pounds of gear back out on foot because a wolf or two decided it would be fun to attack the pack string.[:@]

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Wolves, taste like chicken.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

You gotta love the internet. I can write whatever I want and someone will believe me. I'm sure all those cases are well researched and investigated. Like the elk pictures. I'm sure those snowmobilers knew exactly what happened. And I can tell from the pictures that wolves were definitely sport killing.

The one about the deer really got me. You mean those mean wolves actually killed that deer and then started eating it!! Wolves are freaks of nature. And then the witnesses saw them leave without eating it all possibly detecting human presence, thats really strange too.

I for one want to add wolves to my hit list. Bears right now are at the top and just to show how evil bears are, here are a few stories:

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...in_alaska.html

http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...er_hikers.html

http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/h...1417%2C00.html

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Oh my gosh!!!!!!! Wolves actually kill other animals?[:o][:o][:o] Well now, that changes everything. Lets all go out and kill all of the wolves so we can have all the elk, deer and moose to ourselves.

Did you also know that had the humans left those carcases where they lay and minded their own dang business that the wolves would have probably fed on the carcases and very likely come back to those carcases to feed at a later date when they didn't have a fresh kill. I wonder if the carcases were still there for the wolves to eat that they would still be killing as many animals?

We humans are so dang smart aren't we. We just gotta have our publicity and our pictures take with the carcases of wolf kills. We always gotta be screwing aroung with mother nature.

Wolves have been known for a long time to be opportunistic predators that will kill more than they need at the present in order to "stock up" on kills and meat for the lean times. All animals do this. Predators and prey alike. All over the world. It's a fact of nature and as bad as some of those pictures look that's the way it goes.

FYI, there are countless other animals that will also bennefit from left overs from wolf kills. Eagles, hawks, owls, squirrels, mice, fox, raccoons, coyotes, bears, badgers, ravens, crown, oppossums, insects. The list goes on and on.

Wolves, just like all other predators on this planet, have a basic instinct to attack an animal that is fleeing from them regardless if they are hungry or not. I just watched a show on animal planet that showed a leopard attack and kill a wildabeast calf and as the heard was running by she let go the first one and attacked and killed another calf ten feet from the fist one. Did she need to kill another one? Of course not. Should the humans have killed her for this? Of course not. Some of you though, judging from your statements, would have shot her on the spot for killing more than she needed cause she was wasting animals.

A cheetah with three cubs came upon a newborn impalla that just sat there and didn't move at all. They didn't know what to do with it since it. Since it wasn't running from them they didn't see it as prey. As they were playing with the fawn a rabbit took off running and the cheetahs saw the rabbit and took off after it, caught and killed it with out ever harming the fawn.


Do I think that the wolves need to be here. Absolutely.
Do I think that they should be reintroduced and let to run totally free with out future means of them being controled just like every other animal on this planat? Absolutely not. That will certainly not work.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

big bulls i am pretty sure you missed the first paragraph of this thread

no body is discounting the fact that wolves kill i was simply making the point that they sport kill in which you agreed

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Yes they do, just like every other predator on this planet does.

However,..............If left undisturbed (IE: people not removing the carcases for photo ops or running off the wolves before, during, or after a kill with trucks, guns, snowmobiles etc....) they will more often then not come back to the "sport kill" at a later date to eat the carcas so they do not have to expel and waste the unnecessary energy chasing down and killing another animal.

Bears have long been known to do the exact same thing. They will kill an animal, partially eat it and save the rest for a later date. They also, during the salmon run, catch as many salmon as possible but usually only eat the skin and guts due to the higher fat content and leave the rest for the birds and smaller predators like fox and ravens.



I suspect that one of the major reasons that people see so many so called "sport kills" is that almost all of the wolves have been transplanted from areas that require the wolves to prekill numerous animals to sustain them during the hard winter months and have been introduced to areas where this is not necesasary for the survival of the wolf due to the numerous prey animals available.

You can chock this up to humans killing off the native wolves that were specifically adapted to different parts of the country with specific survival tactics for each region of the contry.

Had the native wolves been "managed" instead of being wiped out we wouldn't have the need to reintroduce non native wolves with far different survival tactics (prekilling numerous animals) than the native wolves had.

Our ancestors made the bed now people like you (IE:.......cattle, sheep, goat, etc... farmers) have to lie in it. Don't blame the people for bringing them back. Blame the people that wiped them out in the first place to the point that they needed to be protected and reintroduced.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I thought the "native wolves" were managed quite nicely actually. :D:D

SSS

Good Luck and Good Hunting,
EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I've gotta agree with bigbulls on this one...well stated

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Hmmmm,

What is sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander....
Indians and wolves --- both were nearly exterminated by our government.....

Now I hear it is time for the wolves to make their come back and retake their rightful place in nature and if it infringes on those living outside the populated areas, then well "too bad" because we are going to do the "right thing" and bring the past into the future without considering the full impact on the present situation, soooooo.....

When are we ALL going to dispose of our property (city houses, semi rural ranchettes, cabins, farms, ranches, industry, the whole bit), give the proceeds, if any, to the Indian Nations and move our butts back to Europe? The Indians used to have the whole damn thing and we unjustly took it from them. Lets bring the past into the future and never mind the impact on the present situation on this one too, after all fair is fair and right is right.

I'm guessing that might hit a little closer to home with its effects settling a little more evenly across the board for ALL of us instead of just the rural FEW, who are easily ignored and pushed aside by the urban/suburban majority any time they get a wild hair.

Parallel scenario, seems like if you are game for one, then it makes sense to be game for the other.

Just so there is no confusion, I'm not for allowing the wolves back and I'm not for giving the joint back to the Indians. I'm kind of fond of the current set up.... plenty of deer and elk and we're a Superpower and the envy of the world. Too much water under the bridge to give either one back on what I would consider a whim.

Of course, you understand, this is only my humble opinion and observation! :D:D:D

EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

EKM
[/quote]
as were the buffalo......the great plains grizzly is extinct.....how much more must be destroyed to make it a "perfect" world for the greedy hunters and farmers??
As for giving everything back to the indians, I don't even see where thats been brought up by anyone here.....poor analogy.BUT, at least they were able to live in harmony with their surroundings without bringing wildlife to to brink of extinction, unlike the modern american.
It looks to me like most of you wolf haters just simply don't like a little "natural" competition.Hmmmm..... maybe as an avid fisherman I should start weeding out some of the "competition"......may be I'll start with a few bald eagles

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

It is always a "poor analogy" when it doesn't support one's own viewpoint.

"How much more must be attempted to be "put back as it once was" to make it a "perfect" world to relieve the conscious of greenies/envios/romantics?

Kinda helps make my point, thanks. At least my way we all pay equally for the "fix", instead of fingering the guy living out at the rural margin of our society.

That, of course, is a call that is up to you to make. Are you willing to personally "pay the potential price" for that course of action?

Where does it all end? Better check the deed and the mortgage on the old homestead.

EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I likved in Alaska a long time, and i'm wondering who else here, has actually seen wolves in action??? AND, i'm not talking about those nearly hand fed yellowstone variety!!!

I "personally" saw wolves pull down a pregnant cow moose, rip her belly open and pull out the unborn calf. Once that was done, they ate most of the calf, and moved off. THE COW WAS NOT DEAD, but lay there still bleeding to death!!!! Isolated instance? I think NOT, as my friends that ALSO spent huge amounts of time in the bush, had similar stories to tell!!! Do you supose these were "planted" wolves????????????

Wolves DO kill for sport!!! Anyone who says differently needs to spend more time out in the Alaskan bush, and see for themselves!!!

When we was trimming our wolf herd down, all the wolf lovers were crying like he**, so the govenor offered to give anyone who wanted the wolves all they wanted, to "let loose" in THERE neighborhood, and there were NO takers!!! What a surprise!!!!!!!!!! I'd just love to turn about 25 of them loose near a big city where the do gooders all "love them"!!!!!

I NEVER could understand how so many do gooders don't like bears, but think wolves are kinda like there pet poodle!!!! I've spent a huge amounts of time around both, and personally, i'd take my chances with the bear anyday!!!

I actually saw a person in a California zoo, pet a wolf, and tell the people standing there, "see wolves don't eat people!!!" I was in the crowd, and asked her if she had ever spent any time in the bush with "wild wolves", I also asked her if she would do that with 5 WILD wolves after not feeding them for a couple weeks!!! She didn't answer me, and i thought i was going to get thrown out of the place!

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

If you are an elk hunter wolves are not your friend.
I hunt iun Idaho where there is a pack of about 15 wolves living right in the middle of where we used to hunt elk.

There are too many wolves with no fear of man in Idaho.
They hang around our camps at night and harrass peoples live stock.
When we get up in the morning there are wolf tracks sometimes within 20 yards of our camp.
When we walk to our hunting areas we see fresh wolf tracks on the trails.
We hear them howling during the day.
We have seen them running in the meadow by our camp within 200 yards of us without a fear in the world.

The areas where we used to hunt elk have no elk now, they have all been pushed down into the steep rocky canyons. There are far less cow elk now and we have seen herds of bulls (5 or 6) running together during prime rut with no cows. Bulls with cows have 2 or 3 now , before the wolves they would have 10 to 15.

If you see elk you better go after them now because they will not be there tomorrow, all you will find is wolf tracks. The wolves keep them constantly moving.

On the winter ranges these wolves with no fear of man camp out in prime habitat and eat all the elk they can kill. There is nothing to keep them away.

A friend of mine while backpacking last year was followed and harrassed by a pack of wolves last year to the point he finally turned around and left not knowing what was going to happen it wasn't worth the risk.
These animals are not your family pet.

When they introduced the wolves here they talked about having maybe 100 wolves in Idaho. There are well over 400 officially and up to 600 unoffically in Idaho right now, with no hope of ever being able to control their numbers in sight.

This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

EKM even though the same thing happened to the Native Americans as did the wolves you can't mix apples and oranges. One is human politics and the other is wild animals. The whole point of wolf re-introduction is simply conserving wild animals in wild places. Native Americans are human and are subject to laws and society. Since this is a big game forum I'll leave my opinion out of it but yes it is a poor analogy.

Everyone keeps saying how wolves sport kill and leave animals after eating a small portion. I read an article in National Geographic and wolves do indeed return to a kill. Sometimes a bear will get there first but the basic point is the meat does not get wasted and nature finds its balance. In other words in the big picture nothing gets wasted and the predators eat only what they need to substain. Wolves are opportunistic hunters. Meaning if given the chance they kill more than they can eat in one sitting BUT THEY DO RETURN. Some of you have witnessed part of this process but because you didn't see it through you didn't realize what you were really seeing. Like BigBulls pointed out a lot of these wolves were probably run off and not given the chance to finish the process in the above examples.

The average wolf can only eat 15-20 lbs in one sitting if it is on an empty stomach. So naturally if a pack of 10 kills 2 elk thats about 500 lbs of meat but those wolves will not even be able to eat one entire elk(200lbs max). Wolves only have a kill rate of 8%, meaning 92% of the time they strike out. So when they can kill more than one animal they do. But they'll come back and feed.

These facts I obtained from National Geographic. If you disagree, take it up with them.

Noway, I agree that wolves should not be allowed to roam free without fear of man and unbounded. I say delist them and lets hunt them. Within controlled amounts of course. Set a popluation objective and tags should be issued to meet that.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Wolves and Indians may be different as far as specie, but the central issue of who is going to REALLY pay to "make things right" is central to each case. In the case of wolves, we'll add a nickel to each of our tax bills but let the effective brunt of the action be taken by those at the rural margin of our society since they don't have the political clout to fight back and it is no skin off (most) our backs. In the case of the Indians, well gee THAT could come around and bite each and everyone of us HARD --- we better not go there --- that is different --- lets table that one.

If you believe that the re-introduction of wolves and the economic impacts it will have on folks livelihoods and state's DOW revenues will not end up involving human politics, then I encourage you to reconsider.

I always did like National Geographic, always left me with that nice, tidy, no loose ends, enlightened outlook --- all in a ten minute read too. Good stuff, seldom in depth, but good stuff.

EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

EKM, the subject of wolves is an economic issue albeit a minor one. Of course its something we have to deal with. The Native Americans ancient way of life is now basically against the law. Huge difference and the point I was trying to make. I still feel a man should have the right to defend his livelihood. IE kill anything attacking livestock. We are having public input wolf meetings in Utah and I will stand-up and say as much.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

It's only "minor" when it is NOT your livelihood.

Government meetings where they let you stand up and have your say are merely a means of appeasing the public and following the process.... then they do what they "think is best" anyway.

DOW revenues will be affected. Check the thread "Good News For BC Moose".

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Again what I think about the Native Americans just has no relavance in this discussion, its about wolves, and as I mentioned its just a different issue altogether.

Every issue is major to someone however the economic issue of wolves to the US as a whole is a minor one.

There are countless privately funded organizations that reimburse ranchers for livestock lost to wolves.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Superb selectivity,
Excellent clean up and dusting skills.
Everything neatly swept under the rug.
Why, there are no issues to this wolf thing at all.....

You are too valuable asset to be left out of such a cause.
When will you be going to work for the USF&G?
You are already trained. ;):D

Good Luck In Your Endeavour,
EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Wolves, now there's a can of worms waiting to be opened. If somebody in washington had asked me if i wanted them re-introduced, the answer would of been a firm no. Since nobody asked, i guess i have no choice but to accept the fact that they are here, now i ask, can we at least get a handle on controlling them, PLEASE!!!!! As for utah and colorado, get ready, they are coming, wether re-introduced or not.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

rather
if you truly beleive this i got some great ocean front property i will sell you here on teh east end of the ranch

the only thing your reimbursed is market value of the carcuss if proven to be a wolf kill

in the end it works out to be about 10% of the actual value of the animal

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

EKM I actually have been trying to take an angle of there are 2 sub-issues involved in re-introducing wolves.

The first is where the hot debate is. That is what effect do wolves have on the eco-system and should they be here in ANY NUMBER over zero. Feelings have been shared and will continue to be shared. This is the point I've been defending.

The second I think we all pretty much agree on and that is the way the FEDS are handling it. I believe that wolves are having a serious negative impact in some parts in the west. Maybe not many but it is scary thing with them being prtected. The wolves need to be de-listed immediately as far as I'm concerned. Ranchers should be able to shoot a wolf caught in the act of killing livestock. Management numbers need to be established as I feel some areas already have a problem. If I lived in those areas I'd be raising a fit. Not to eliminate the wolf, just that hunting needs to be reinstated and numbers reduced in those areas. I do believe the FEDS have skewed the effect that some areas are suffering with respect to elk numbers. An example is I've read that in some areas calf ratios are under 5 per 100 cows. Instead of telling you that they tell you the average overall calf ratio is 30 to 100 over a large area and then say, "see the wolves aren't over populated." The Yellowstone park and surrounding areas now hold about 674 wolves. I fell this number should be around 200 tops. But these are just my opinions, I'm not qualified to make that recommendation. Basically I think wolves should be here but the GOV is giving in to the bunny-huggers and honestly it does piss me off.

Like Speedgoat says lets PLEASE get some way of controlling them.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

That doesn't make sense, if you're reimbursed market value how can that be only 10% of the actual value? Nevermind so even if what you are saying is true, how is that the wolves' fault? Thats our system that needs to be fixed. The solution is de-list them. Thats what we should be pushing for.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I have to say that DM is right, he speaks from experience. They are not here for a reason they are bad. I know some of you guys feel bad because our bad grandparents killed all the poor little wolves. Well there was a reason kind of like the couger killings that are happen now . They just didnt kill them for the fun of it they where a threat then and they are a threat now. Its that simple. The wolves are no diffrent now then they were in the past the only diffrence, they got Goverment on there side now that makes them worse. If a man went out and killed another mans livestock he goes to jail. If a wolf does he gets it paid for. Putting beast above man is not right.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

the average value of a cow(for slaughter) is between $400 and $500

if they are PROVEN to be killed buy a wolf, as a calf your given the market value around time of death, on a 50# calf at $.80 a pound this is $40 dollars for a cow i should be getting $400-500 in the fall

this is where wolves & predators cost ranchers lots of money

also if they kill an animal that is of higher value you have a limit on what these groups will pay usually $2000 or less

also if wolves chase your livestock to death (common with sheep)or lame an animal(common with horses) it becomes harder or impossible to get any reimbursment.

i am all for management but it isnt going to happen anytime soon. the longer it takes for management to come in to play the stronger my hatred for wolves grows. be it there fault or those dumb@$$es in DC the wolves are the only ones i can effect and have a direct effect on me

i have wrote litterally dozens of requests comments and letters stateing my feelings on the matter to representives/ senators/mayors/US F&G/ state F&G of WY, UT, MT, ID, CO, NM, and AZ
sometimes i get stupid replies like we are trying to find a solution or we are commited to helping but in the end its all a bunch of $h!t and isnt worth the paper, envelope, and stamp

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

So would you say the same thing about the endangered Siberian and Bengal Tigers? They were certainly a threat to humans and their livestock.

How about the Golden Eagle? They are well known to take lambs, dogs, and numerous other domestic farm animals on a regular basis.

How about the whales, dolphins and sharks in the oceans? They are certainly a threat to all of the fish that we could be eating if they had not eaten thef first. The more they eat the less fish get caught and the less money humans make.

Should we just go out and make extinct an entire species because they eat cows or other livestock or fish? To say that animals like wolves, mountain lions and such are just bad is truely an ignorant statement and statements like that truely show some peoples ignorance towards all of nature and IMO don't deserve to reap the benefist of what nature has to offer them.


So it's somehow the wolves fault that a bunch of idiots are running the show? I don't think so. Hate the idiots in charge not the wolves. So if I pi$$ you off you are going to beat up your neighbor because he is the only one that you can effect at the time? That's just plain stupid.

No one forced you or any of the ranchers into their chosen professions did they? I highly doubt it. Life is all about choices and you, not mom or dad, chose the lifestyle that you live. You made the choice to ranch cattle so live with the good and the bad of the job.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I got an honest question for you jjt.

In another post I remember you saying that on average it costs you aproximately $15,000 each year loosing livestock to wolves? I don't remember how large you said that your property was. How much would it cost you to fence your property to keep out the wolves. How much money are you collectively loosing each year that you do not have a fence around your property compared to the initial cost of fencing your property? Would it be worth biting the bullet and erecting a fence to keep the bad out and saving the money in the long run? Folks in Texas do it all the time.

Not tryint to pick at anything with this question I am just honestly curious to know.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Hey bigbull,

Who's hogging up all the land? The city folk, or the farmers/ranchers????? Where do YOU live???? Do you live in a populated area????

The REAL problem is, we aren't makeing the earth any bigger, we are filling it up with cities, houseing, roads ect.... !!!!

The problem started when the FIRST human got here!! It's went down hill from that moment on, and will NEVER be right again!!!! Adding wolves back into the equation will NOT "make it better", and you will NEVER "have it like it was before humans apeared" again!!!!

We have a choise, keep the predators severly limited, OR remove all humans from this planet!!!!!!!!! There are LOT's of places with plenty of wolves, we just don't need them "all over". You want wolves? Go to the Alaskan bush, or Canadian bush!!!

Untill you have lived with wolves next to YOUR KIDS, YOUR dogs and YOUR other animials, i don't think you know what your talking about!!!

I speak from experence, NOT from reading National Geo!!

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

DM

That is a little too much common sense for this discussion. ;):D:D:D

EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

a fence to keep the wolves out would cost between $700,000.00 to $1,000,000.00

and would kill around 600 elk and 3-400 deer 2-300 antelope the first year considerably less the next year

folks in texas dont have to worry about winter migration routes

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

DM
i am sure plainsman will be buy to make sure it is the humans we start eliminating. god forbid we hold ourselve in higher respect than an animal

EKM
lol well said

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Being and Idahoan I have an up close and personal response to the wolf debate. I have looked closely at both sides of the argument and have followed the wolf re-introduction efforts for this state.

I agree with some of you with the fact that a wolf has every right to be here as we do. Unlike the dinosaurs, mammoths, and sabertooth tigers, the wolves were taken to near extinction by un-natural means. Therefore, to some degree, I agree to try to preserve the speicies from extinction by re-introduction. Not just to see the speicies restored to the wild, but also allow for future hunting and trapping opertunities in the lower 48.

However, I strongly disagree with the way that they went about the re-introduction process.

First off, in Idaho, they introduced a different species of wolf. They used Canadian wolves, a larger breed of wolf than the original species that roamed this area. These larger wolves (about 30 to 50 lbs heavier than the original breed) are a more dominant predator that target the larger animals (elk herds). This more dominant breed has taken off in numbers since the introduction in the late 80's, early 90's. The elk have been hit the hardest by the wolf population boom. The elk herds of Idaho have decreased 30% in size since the re-introduction. The wolf has also pushed the couger out of the back country into more populated areas, and we are seeing more couger related instances (attacks on dogs, children, and some adults) causing the knee jerk reaction of killing the couger responsible for the attacks.

Secondly, I am upset with the way the government has handled the control of the population, or lack thier of. Until recently it was a federal crime to shoot a wolf. I could understand that back when they were in danger of extinction, but the change in control laws have been too slow in the process to keep up with the population boom. Today the Idaho wolf packs are strong and threatening to be overpopulated in the predator to prey ratio. The general public can shoot a wolf only if the wolf threatens you, your family, or your property. The federal government is now waiting for the States to come up with a plan for control. The problem with this is the 3 States involved (Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming) have to all have a plan at the same time. So as the control efforts are wrapped up in red tape, the wolves continue to breed unchecked.

Finally, one of Idaho's main incomes is from tourism, and a good chunk if that is hunting dollars from the elk hunts. The wolves main prey is elk (remember the 30% decrease in elk population). The economic effects of the wolf re-introduction has already been felt.

Eventually there will be a control measure, but unfortunatly it is comming to late. The damage has been done just to appease the minority "environmentalists" who want to hear the cry of the wolf.

Do you know what is next on their adgenda? The re-introduction of the grizzly bear. They'll probably ship some Alaskan Browns down for that one.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Really, well since you are the wolf expert and we know nothing then you would should know that worrying about your kids is not a viable arguement against wolves. Why?

"Wolf bites and attacks are highly unusual. Injuries and deaths from pets, bears, moose, and fox are far more common than those caused by wolves. Most reported wolf bites are caused habituated wolves being fed. On average, there are two bear attacks per year in Alaska. Overall, 32 have been fatal. Historically, dogs have accounted for 38 deaths in Alaska. Only two wolf attacks in Alaska history have been fatal; both attacks were by rabid wolves and occurred in the early 1940's."

Source: Alaska State Troopers News Release
http://www.dps.state.ak.us/archive/R...0/wlfbite2.pdf

It really rubs me the wrong way when someone says simply because they live in a place they are all of a sudden an expert and no one else knows what they are talking about. But it is satisfying when the self proclaimed know it all is dead wrong by proof. This shows that at least some apprehensions about wolves are based on fear and not the facts.

But hey what do I know, I don't actually live in Alaska. I'm sure this report was manufactured by the conspiracy of wildlife biologists and government agents that want wolves to thrive. So I'm curious Mr DM how many wolf attacks on humans have you seen? Go ahead and set us straight since we have no idea what we're talking about.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Those Alaskan statistics mean nothing with regard to the wolves in Idaho.
The Alaskan wolves are hunted and have a healthy fear of man.

The wolves in Idaho are not hunted and have no fear of man.

A whole different ball game.

Since you have no fear of wolves bring your young children on out to Idaho and I will show you a good spot to camp where there are plenty of wolves to not worry about. Although from your comments I would guess you have no children.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

rather be hunting,

I never claimed to be an expert on ANYTHING, but i DO claim to have been in the Alaskan bush an extended amount of time, and lived out of any towns there for 25 years!! In that amount of time i DID manage to learn a few things about wild animials. AND i didn't get my info off a web site, or by reading the National Geo either! I've related here what i saw and learned out in the bush, and i've reported it here "accurately", nothing more, and nothing less!!!

I've NOT personally witnessed any wolf attacks, but i did have a freind who was bitten on the arm by one that came into his camp. And, NO he didn't report it!!!!! (as is normally the case there, for those non-townies)

I have no idea how many wolf attacks go on around the world, but i am positive of one thing, not ALL attacks of ANY KIND get reported! I know this from personal experence myself, where i didn't report everything that happened to me there.

One of my personal friends in Alaska is an veteran Alaska State Trooper, and i assure you things go on "there" that never get's into a book of statics!! BUT really, that's not the point! "If", you lived close to wolves, and seen how they come into homesteads and take dogs ect.., i'll bet YOU, you'd NOT want to leave your young children out there playing "unsupervised" when they move into YOUR area!! It only takes ONE, would you want that one to be YOUR's???????????

My distant neighbors just hated me when i'd let bears wonder into my yard, and one time i even had one look into my home through my "picture window", they never did any more than get into my garbarage a time or two. Now wolves, that's another story!! They take and eat pets there all the time, and in my opinion are much more dangerous to children than bears are!!! Now, if bears ran in packs, perhaps i'd change my opinion?????????????

NOW, how about telling me what "wolf experence" YOU have???????????? How much time have you spent in the bush with them in the last 15 or 25 years???????????? Have you EVER even seen wild wolves hunting or takeing game in the bush before????

Lastly, i love hearing about other peoples bush experences, and i learn from them! But, i don't put those folks down just because they experenced something that i haven't seen before!! I learned a long time ago that i won't learn everything out of a book!!! Isn't that a good reason to spend more time out in the bush??????????

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

DM. Pissing contests are all about egos, who can beat thier chest harder. I will not enter them. I acknowledge that you have a unique perspective because you live there. However telling others that they don't know what they are talking about because they don't live there is off base. Based on that logic there are no American Civil war experts because no one experienced it. You basically said, "wolves do this" and then when someone says something to the contrary you tell them they have no idea what they are talking about. There are many creditable sources of information that one can learn from and only an idiot doesn't use them.

Wolves will be in my state soon so I've armed myself with every piece of info I can find. Some of my info says you are wrong about your fears. IE attacking children. I pointed that out and I did it a little in your face because I felt you were being very in my face.

To answer your question I have seen Yellowstone wolves in person and countless videos. I won't pretend to have the experience that you have, however telling me I don't what I'm talking about just isn't accurate. Wolves are predators, they kill with teeth. Encounters with prey are violent, but they are with any other predator.

Aldo Leopold wrote,
"Those who understand the role of the predator understand the inner workings and drama of the land itself. You can not love game and hate the predator ... the land is one organism."

I don't really have anymore input on this subject.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I guess a million bucks is a little steep for a fence.;)

I don't know what else to tell ya. But IMO wolves were nearly wiped out by man not too many years ago just like the Bald Eagle, elk, deer, turkey, buffalo and countless other animals in this country and around the world. Wolves should be reintroduced to places that they used to roam free but it should be done in such a manner to allow for controling growing populations.

You know what, That argument holds about as much water as a noodle strainer. Every single person on this planet has some sort of a dwelling where wild animals used to roam free. I'd be willing to bet that a ranchers house, barn, and other buildings are taking up a lot more land that my apartment is. Do you think I like the city living? Please, I'd give my right #@%& to live on thousands of acres somewhere in the mountains where there were / are wolves and be greatful that I had a "wolf problem"!!!!!!!! I can't afford to do it though. At $10,000 an acre it's gonna be a heck of a long time before I can do so. I didn't have a ranch handed down through multiple generations like most farmers / ranchers did.

Yes the predators need to be limited just like avery animal in this country. But for someone to say and advise people that we should just go out and kill every wolf that you see is just an ignorant and completely selfish thing to say. Humans have done this with all kinds of animals and MOST of us have learned that this planet is much better off with the animals alive and well than be extinct.

This one statement is a huge part of the entire problem with wolf reintroduction.

Like I said earlier, our ancestors made the bed that we are arguing over now. When people almost wipe out an entire species of animal eventually someone is going to do something about it. That's when the trouble starts because we then are forced to reintroduce non native animals that have totally different habits and instincts to take the place of the wiped out natime animals that were there.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

You know what jjt, the more I see of how humans are screwing things up on this planet, the more RESPECT I have for animals.Wars,terrorists, drugs, rape,murder for a pair of shoes[:@]....yup humans are definatley the superior beings....it's proven everyday[&o]

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Touche plainsman!!!!!!!!!

It really is quite sad that there are actually people still left on this earth that would kill off an entire species of animals for a few bucks or to rid themselves of competition while hunting.