for all you wolf lovers
04-20-2004, 11:38 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: south western, wy USA
Posts: 496
for all you wolf lovers
i read in a previous post that wolves are so great and they don't SPORT KILL well here is some pretty good info to show that to be dead wrong
[link]http://www.natureswolves.com/[/link]
[link]http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/wolf_pics.htm[/link]
[link]http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats%20New_6.htm[/link]
[link]http://www.natureswolves.com/[/link]
[link]http://www.mtmultipleuse.org/wolf_pics.htm[/link]
[link]http://www.wildlife-enhancement.ca/Whats%20New_6.htm[/link]
04-20-2004, 02:28 PM
#2
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 213
RE: for all you wolf lovers
And we're supposed to believe that wolves are just big dogs? After reading the articles on those sites, I can see why we killed most of them off in the U.S. Let the government release them in CO. The first time they wonder into our camp will be their last. I'm not the kind of guy who enjoys packing several hundred pounds of gear back out on foot because a wolf or two decided it would be fun to attack the pack string.[:@]
04-20-2004, 03:25 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cedar Valley Utah
Posts: 977
RE: for all you wolf lovers
You gotta love the internet. I can write whatever I want and someone will believe me. I'm sure all those cases are well researched and investigated. Like the elk pictures. I'm sure those snowmobilers knew exactly what happened. And I can tell from the pictures that wolves were definitely sport killing.
The one about the deer really got me. You mean those mean wolves actually killed that deer and then started eating it!! Wolves are freaks of nature. And then the witnesses saw them leave without eating it all possibly detecting human presence, thats really strange too.
I for one want to add wolves to my hit list. Bears right now are at the top and just to show how evil bears are, here are a few stories:
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...in_alaska.html
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...er_hikers.html
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/h...1417%2C00.html
The one about the deer really got me. You mean those mean wolves actually killed that deer and then started eating it!! Wolves are freaks of nature. And then the witnesses saw them leave without eating it all possibly detecting human presence, thats really strange too.
I for one want to add wolves to my hit list. Bears right now are at the top and just to show how evil bears are, here are a few stories:
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...in_alaska.html
http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/anim...er_hikers.html
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/h...1417%2C00.html
04-20-2004, 04:36 PM
#5
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: for all you wolf lovers
Oh my gosh!!!!!!! Wolves actually kill other animals?[
][][] Well now, that changes everything. Lets all go out and kill all of the wolves so we can have all the elk, deer and moose to ourselves.
Did you also know that had the humans left those carcases where they lay and minded their own dang business that the wolves would have probably fed on the carcases and very likely come back to those carcases to feed at a later date when they didn't have a fresh kill. I wonder if the carcases were still there for the wolves to eat that they would still be killing as many animals?
We humans are so dang smart aren't we. We just gotta have our publicity and our pictures take with the carcases of wolf kills. We always gotta be screwing aroung with mother nature.
Wolves have been known for a long time to be opportunistic predators that will kill more than they need at the present in order to "stock up" on kills and meat for the lean times. All animals do this. Predators and prey alike. All over the world. It's a fact of nature and as bad as some of those pictures look that's the way it goes.
FYI, there are countless other animals that will also bennefit from left overs from wolf kills. Eagles, hawks, owls, squirrels, mice, fox, raccoons, coyotes, bears, badgers, ravens, crown, oppossums, insects. The list goes on and on.
Wolves, just like all other predators on this planet, have a basic instinct to attack an animal that is fleeing from them regardless if they are hungry or not. I just watched a show on animal planet that showed a leopard attack and kill a wildabeast calf and as the heard was running by she let go the first one and attacked and killed another calf ten feet from the fist one. Did she need to kill another one? Of course not. Should the humans have killed her for this? Of course not. Some of you though, judging from your statements, would have shot her on the spot for killing more than she needed cause she was wasting animals.
A cheetah with three cubs came upon a newborn impalla that just sat there and didn't move at all. They didn't know what to do with it since it. Since it wasn't running from them they didn't see it as prey. As they were playing with the fawn a rabbit took off running and the cheetahs saw the rabbit and took off after it, caught and killed it with out ever harming the fawn.
Do I think that the wolves need to be here. Absolutely.
Do I think that they should be reintroduced and let to run totally free with out future means of them being controled just like every other animal on this planat? Absolutely not. That will certainly not work.
][][] Well now, that changes everything. Lets all go out and kill all of the wolves so we can have all the elk, deer and moose to ourselves.Did you also know that had the humans left those carcases where they lay and minded their own dang business that the wolves would have probably fed on the carcases and very likely come back to those carcases to feed at a later date when they didn't have a fresh kill. I wonder if the carcases were still there for the wolves to eat that they would still be killing as many animals?
We humans are so dang smart aren't we. We just gotta have our publicity and our pictures take with the carcases of wolf kills. We always gotta be screwing aroung with mother nature.
Wolves have been known for a long time to be opportunistic predators that will kill more than they need at the present in order to "stock up" on kills and meat for the lean times. All animals do this. Predators and prey alike. All over the world. It's a fact of nature and as bad as some of those pictures look that's the way it goes.
FYI, there are countless other animals that will also bennefit from left overs from wolf kills. Eagles, hawks, owls, squirrels, mice, fox, raccoons, coyotes, bears, badgers, ravens, crown, oppossums, insects. The list goes on and on.
Wolves, just like all other predators on this planet, have a basic instinct to attack an animal that is fleeing from them regardless if they are hungry or not. I just watched a show on animal planet that showed a leopard attack and kill a wildabeast calf and as the heard was running by she let go the first one and attacked and killed another calf ten feet from the fist one. Did she need to kill another one? Of course not. Should the humans have killed her for this? Of course not. Some of you though, judging from your statements, would have shot her on the spot for killing more than she needed cause she was wasting animals.
A cheetah with three cubs came upon a newborn impalla that just sat there and didn't move at all. They didn't know what to do with it since it. Since it wasn't running from them they didn't see it as prey. As they were playing with the fawn a rabbit took off running and the cheetahs saw the rabbit and took off after it, caught and killed it with out ever harming the fawn.
Do I think that the wolves need to be here. Absolutely.
Do I think that they should be reintroduced and let to run totally free with out future means of them being controled just like every other animal on this planat? Absolutely not. That will certainly not work.
04-20-2004, 05:46 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: south western, wy USA
Posts: 496
RE: for all you wolf lovers
big bulls i am pretty sure you missed the first paragraph of this thread
no body is discounting the fact that wolves kill i was simply making the point that they sport kill in which you agreed
no body is discounting the fact that wolves kill i was simply making the point that they sport kill in which you agreed
Wolves, just like all other predators on this planet, have a basic instinct to attack an animal that is fleeing from them regardless if they are hungry or not.
04-20-2004, 06:24 PM
#7
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: for all you wolf lovers
Yes they do, just like every other predator on this planet does.
However,..............If left undisturbed (IE: people not removing the carcases for photo ops or running off the wolves before, during, or after a kill with trucks, guns, snowmobiles etc....) they will more often then not come back to the "sport kill" at a later date to eat the carcas so they do not have to expel and waste the unnecessary energy chasing down and killing another animal.
Bears have long been known to do the exact same thing. They will kill an animal, partially eat it and save the rest for a later date. They also, during the salmon run, catch as many salmon as possible but usually only eat the skin and guts due to the higher fat content and leave the rest for the birds and smaller predators like fox and ravens.
I suspect that one of the major reasons that people see so many so called "sport kills" is that almost all of the wolves have been transplanted from areas that require the wolves to prekill numerous animals to sustain them during the hard winter months and have been introduced to areas where this is not necesasary for the survival of the wolf due to the numerous prey animals available.
You can chock this up to humans killing off the native wolves that were specifically adapted to different parts of the country with specific survival tactics for each region of the contry.
Had the native wolves been "managed" instead of being wiped out we wouldn't have the need to reintroduce non native wolves with far different survival tactics (prekilling numerous animals) than the native wolves had.
Our ancestors made the bed now people like you (IE:.......cattle, sheep, goat, etc... farmers) have to lie in it. Don't blame the people for bringing them back. Blame the people that wiped them out in the first place to the point that they needed to be protected and reintroduced.
However,..............If left undisturbed (IE: people not removing the carcases for photo ops or running off the wolves before, during, or after a kill with trucks, guns, snowmobiles etc....) they will more often then not come back to the "sport kill" at a later date to eat the carcas so they do not have to expel and waste the unnecessary energy chasing down and killing another animal.
Bears have long been known to do the exact same thing. They will kill an animal, partially eat it and save the rest for a later date. They also, during the salmon run, catch as many salmon as possible but usually only eat the skin and guts due to the higher fat content and leave the rest for the birds and smaller predators like fox and ravens.
I suspect that one of the major reasons that people see so many so called "sport kills" is that almost all of the wolves have been transplanted from areas that require the wolves to prekill numerous animals to sustain them during the hard winter months and have been introduced to areas where this is not necesasary for the survival of the wolf due to the numerous prey animals available.
You can chock this up to humans killing off the native wolves that were specifically adapted to different parts of the country with specific survival tactics for each region of the contry.
Had the native wolves been "managed" instead of being wiped out we wouldn't have the need to reintroduce non native wolves with far different survival tactics (prekilling numerous animals) than the native wolves had.
Our ancestors made the bed now people like you (IE:.......cattle, sheep, goat, etc... farmers) have to lie in it. Don't blame the people for bringing them back. Blame the people that wiped them out in the first place to the point that they needed to be protected and reintroduced.
04-20-2004, 09:55 PM
#10
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: for all you wolf lovers
Hmmmm,
What is sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander....
Indians and wolves --- both were nearly exterminated by our government.....
Now I hear it is time for the wolves to make their come back and retake their rightful place in nature and if it infringes on those living outside the populated areas, then well "too bad" because we are going to do the "right thing" and bring the past into the future without considering the full impact on the present situation, soooooo.....
When are we ALL going to dispose of our property (city houses, semi rural ranchettes, cabins, farms, ranches, industry, the whole bit), give the proceeds, if any, to the Indian Nations and move our butts back to Europe? The Indians used to have the whole damn thing and we unjustly took it from them. Lets bring the past into the future and never mind the impact on the present situation on this one too, after all fair is fair and right is right.
I'm guessing that might hit a little closer to home with its effects settling a little more evenly across the board for ALL of us instead of just the rural FEW, who are easily ignored and pushed aside by the urban/suburban majority any time they get a wild hair.
Parallel scenario, seems like if you are game for one, then it makes sense to be game for the other.
Just so there is no confusion, I'm not for allowing the wolves back and I'm not for giving the joint back to the Indians. I'm kind of fond of the current set up.... plenty of deer and elk and we're a Superpower and the envy of the world. Too much water under the bridge to give either one back on what I would consider a whim.
Of course, you understand, this is only my humble opinion and observation!
EKM
What is sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander....
Indians and wolves --- both were nearly exterminated by our government.....
Now I hear it is time for the wolves to make their come back and retake their rightful place in nature and if it infringes on those living outside the populated areas, then well "too bad" because we are going to do the "right thing" and bring the past into the future without considering the full impact on the present situation, soooooo.....
When are we ALL going to dispose of our property (city houses, semi rural ranchettes, cabins, farms, ranches, industry, the whole bit), give the proceeds, if any, to the Indian Nations and move our butts back to Europe? The Indians used to have the whole damn thing and we unjustly took it from them. Lets bring the past into the future and never mind the impact on the present situation on this one too, after all fair is fair and right is right.
I'm guessing that might hit a little closer to home with its effects settling a little more evenly across the board for ALL of us instead of just the rural FEW, who are easily ignored and pushed aside by the urban/suburban majority any time they get a wild hair.
Parallel scenario, seems like if you are game for one, then it makes sense to be game for the other.
Just so there is no confusion, I'm not for allowing the wolves back and I'm not for giving the joint back to the Indians. I'm kind of fond of the current set up.... plenty of deer and elk and we're a Superpower and the envy of the world. Too much water under the bridge to give either one back on what I would consider a whim.
Of course, you understand, this is only my humble opinion and observation!
EKM