RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Has anyone seen the results of the government regulating the coyote. It is failing, and there is open range on them. The coyote has this knack for reproducing that is baffling. Just when you think you have the problem controlled a bitch has a 20 pup litter and with their survival rate you have replaced the predator you just killed with three to four more. Talk about walking uphill in sand.

Just a (calmer for me) thought to play with.

Dogs eat their own fecies.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

So how many people can you feed with a wolf? How many acres does it take to feed a wolf? What has a wolf done to cure world hunger? Did the wolf stop Adolph from ridding the world of Jews and Gypsies. Has the wolf created a way to take half the acreage to feed three times the population of our great country? Did the wolf create the cotton gin or discover that wool keeps you warm and lanolin is excellent for the skin?The wolf is not the balance of nature as much as you may want it to be. It wasn't missed as much as you want it to be. It's not your backyard your playing in. My livelyhood is not part of a feel gooder zoo. I enjoy hunting because I enjoy hunting wolf or no wolf. When the rancher/farmers of this country decided to better the productivity of the land it was for a very good reason. The next time you open a package, shop for fresh groceries say a prayer to the four winds, spirit of nature and the wolf for the vehicle you drive, that carries your groceries to the home you live in with the heating system running water flush toilet cable tv and internet connection you so dearly despise.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Uhm, OK????????

What does Adolf Hitler and world hunger have to do with a wolf? I don't think any one here, even the wolf haters, accused the wolf of being a world leader or an inventor, or textile mill.

The point is that even a predator like a wolf has just as much right to exist as all the beloved elk, deer, moose, and cattle. No one ever said that the wolf is THE ballance of nature. It is a PART of the ballance of nature and should be there.



Since you guys don't like the wolf so much I will gladly trade you my apartment for your house in the mountains and your wolf problem. Heck go ahead and throw in a mountain lion and bear problem too. Any takers??? Come on, even swap. I know some of you would rather deal with traffic every day than the occasional wolf.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Bigbulls, if you get to many offers, send some my way. I'd take that trade anyday.Alleycats may soon become the #1 problem predator if we get to many takers....they are the wolves of the city...and damn dangerous....look at how they destroy our urban wildlife....sparrows and pigeons. Take up arms brothers....exterminate all cats before we are over run:D

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I'll definetly keep you in mind plainsman.;):D:D I'm sure I'll have then knocking down my front door with a fully loaded moving truck in the parking lot.:eek:

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

I'm still trying to find where "I said" to wipe all the wolves off the face of the earth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can someone show me where i said that here, ????? Or anywhere else for that matter!!!!!!!!!

I'm always amazed how the people who live in the cities, who "don't live" with problems (like wolves) seem to beable to "sugar coat" those same problems, and can only see through there own rose colored glass'!!

Guys, don't whine about your situation, Alaska is still there, do what i did, get an old pickup, and hit the road!! I was young, broke, and did it with out knowing anyone there! Make your dream come true, that's what i did!!!

15 or 20 years in the bush should shed some light on your thinking, and give you some first hand experence!!!!

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Humans are the biggest sport killers. How many gopher and coyote hunters are there? How many kill a bear and leave everything but the rug? I hear of all the horror stories of elk and deer with their hind legs tore to peaces. Don't get me started on telling you how many wounded animals I have found in the woods shot to peaces by hunters or suffering by a slightly off arrow. I'm seriously considering giving up archery hunting as I have made a few bad shots and it isn't necessary for me. How many city hunters go out in the woods and shoot deer just to take back to show their friends and then leave in the dumpsters.

You don't want to argue with me about the ethics of wolves. They have every right to be out in the forest. It's a matter of how we manage them that's the problem. We need to take care of the ranchers too, as they have a right to exist and make a living. We can't put wolves back everywhere but they should be in some places.
This is a little off track now and should stay focused on sport killing but it galls me to hear about how bad wolves are. They aren't the ones taking up all the winter range which is the biggest threat to our game animals. Anyway's, the greed of it all is pathetic.

Wolves live by instincts and we think through what we do and we still sport hunt.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

RJ

you will have to do better than stats. these guys are not interested in any of that they just want wolves and it is there right to survive no matter what the consequences are to hunters ranchers etc

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

RJ

Thanks for the post mortum! And the wolf lovers down here in "game abundant" Colorado are only 9 years behind you guys and just aching to catch up with you. I may be skeptical, but following you down the path the government has put you folks on does not really sound like the kind of "improvement" I'd like to see in these parts. Too bad too, our fledgling moose population was just getting going....

Check out "Good News For BC Moose" where they are raising the legal limit there to 10 wolves PER HUNTER! Be careful for what you wish for Colorado.... just one decade and you too can be crying for the "good old days".

Remember, this is a good thing! The Sierra Club and the Government tells us so and we should believe them. This is a good thing. This is a good thing. This is a good thing. I'm trying but it just ain't working.

EKM

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Exactly who are you "wolf haters" really mad at. Is it the wolf or is it the dumb ass humans that are in charge of the wolves?

Don't you think that if done correctly the wolf could coexist with the humans and the other game animals that we have with out causing all of the problems that are aparently abundant averywhere.

Is it really the wolves fault that they were almost wiped out to begin with?

Is it really the wolves fault that there are overpopulated in some areas causing the problems that many of yoy are seeing now?

Is it really the wolves fault that they are not managed properly in order to prevent all of these problems and hatred toward the wolf?


I don't see how it is the wolves that are the real problem here. I see the real problem as the people that are in charge of this relocation program not having a clue about what should really be done now and in the future about reintroducing them and keeping the population in check.




DM I don't believe it was you that said to kill them all and burry them under the nearest tree. I believe it was jjt and others just agreed with him.

BTW, If you can convince my wife and kids to move to Alaska I would be there as soon as I graduated school. There are a couple of gunsmiths up there that are looking for partners or at least hiring new gunsmiths. Unfortunately I can't just pack up a truck and drive right on up there like you did.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

if i want to i can pass this blame all the way to bush senior or who ever was pres when they started exterminating them and it would all be BS

the proplem is the WOLVES it doesnt matter who is in charge of them {by what you have contributed already Bigbulls (they are wild and the have instinks etc)} if you manage them it will slow the problems but it will not stop the wolves from being wolves

i share my hatred for the wolves along with the idiots who are in charge of them

also you are correct it was i who said shoot them and drag them under the neerest pine tree

i recently was speaking with a biologist about my stand on wolves verse coyotes and to my amazement he agreed with me when i said they should be managed the same with only a poisoning restriction.

if you take a look at wyomings laws on coyotes you will find there are few laws if any as they carry the predator classification and i might add they are surviveing very well

but back to my point if they were shot (at will)and trapped(winter) they would still survive just fine do to there location and stile of living

if you look back at the extermination effort you will find that hunting and shooting them actually killed a very small percentage however poisoning them was responcible for the majority of the eradication

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

If they are managed with a real understanding of what it would take to keep them under control and actually implemented the actions required it would work.

This very well may be true and that's fine if it would keep a good ballance between them, the "deer", and us. If having a fully open season or a limited season would keep their numbers in check then I am all for it. Get it started. But just killing them just because they are a wolf in IMO not the right thing to do.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

i have thought about this statement alot and i am still wondering what other reason there is to shoot a wolf?

i would probably get the first one mounted but other than that i am at a loss

i would not eat a dog
the fur trade has been destroyed by animal activists
so escentually the become bullet test subjects

other than to simply control there numbers the only reason i would shoot them is becasue they are a wolf

So Big bulls what is the right thing to do????

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

What I mean by that is that we should go pay our money for the license, pay the tax, search and rescue fee, and keep it legal.

Not just go out and start shooting and trapping as many of them as we can just because they are there.

And yes if you see a wolf attacking your livestock or pets then by all means you should be allowed to kill it.



I just think that everyone could come to a compromise about and learn to live with the wolf again if we wanted to.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

bigbull,

You freely admit that "YOU" don't, nor does "anyone else" have a plan in place, to control the wolves!! So, why do you keep advocateing the release of more wolves into the lower 48 states "BEFORE" something is done about the problem that "ALREADY" exist????????????????

There's NO way they wolves will be controled once let loose, the proof of that is, look where they already exist!!

"If" you wolf lovers want to keep on putting more predators into our system, then you all better start castorateing all the new born human babies, because it's those same babies, (and there children) "as adults", that are competeing for the same land the predators need!!!

Please start with your OWN kids first, to show the rest of us just how SERIOUS you are about your love of wolves!!!

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

Uhm, have you actually read any one of my posts? If you had you would have known before hand that I am not advocating the uncontroled release of wolves anywhere. What I am advocating is that when the people that are running this show have actually got a sound plan and future plans on numbers control that the wolf should be reintriduced back into the lower 48 states.

BTW, I, nor anyone else here (including you), will be able to come up with a plan to deal with this. None of us are "in the loop" enough or an actual member of the relocation effort to be able to deal with it first hand. What I do know is that if the individual states wildlife officials were "allowed" to manage the wolves as needed we wouldn't be having this argument.

I beg to differ. The wolves numbers are out of control in certain areas because there never was, nor is, a sound plan to do deal with a growing population. The people running this program just dumped them out and hoped for the best and as we all know this has never, nor will ever work.

The only thing I can say about this is that it has got to be one of the most absurd statements made by anyone in this whole debate.

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

At least we agree on a couple points!!

The wolves are out of control in some area's!! AND, There's NO plan to control them!!!

SO, are you for or against the release of more wolves into the lower 48 states???????

BTW, i do have a plan to control them. It is, you open season on any wolf in the problem areas untill they are shot down into controlable numbers!!!!

Actually, the wolf lovers should be the ones paying for ALL control efforts and DAMAGE the wolves do. I can't see why the rest of us (who knew better in the first place) should come in with OUR dollars to clean up your mess!!

Drilling Man

RE: for all you wolf lovers
 

No I am not for the reintroduction of any wild animal with out some realistic plan and expectations inplace to make sure that things like this don't happen. Until that is set and in place there should not be any more released.

If the states are actually allowed to manage their own populations of animals and will do it properly then I see no reason at all why we can't live with wolves.

I have never said in any of these threads that the wolf should be allowed to grow out of control with no means in place to keep their numbers in check. What I have been adoment about is that there is room enough for the wolves if managed properly like our deer, elk and moose.

All of us hunters know with out a doubt that no matter the animal if left to populate uncontroled eventually all of the animals as well as humans will begin to suffer in one way or another.