RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Reintroduced wolves have killed some of my family's livestock. They were seen in the act. Although wanting to take care of the situation at the moment, we deffered to the Game and Fish Dept. Upon contacting the G&F they said "that's an issue for the Feds". Upon contacting them, they sent a Govt. paid trapper. They gave us the third degree, and did'nt do a thing about the problem, even though we could have shot them and DID'NT!!!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Ron G.

Rancher tries to do the right thing and gets his face knocked in the dirt for his trouble. Don't forget to smile, say thanks, and ask, "May I have another". A damn sorry situation.

Shy of spending $150,000 to hire a PHD and his assistant to come out and do an "official" and "scientific" study of your wolf situation and what you "think you saw happen" ;), I doubt they will listen to you. I empathize with your situation.

I would be very careful of openly stating your intentions regarding future handlings of this matter. The federal government has deep pockets and too many folks with lots of time on their hands and can easily get to the name behind your internet account by supoena if a wolf kill is discovered in your area. They'd like nothing better than to make an example of you just for publicity purposes. By the time they get your report written up, it won't matter whether you did anything wrong or were justified in your actions from a common man's perspective, it just won't read that way.

Good luck with a very crappy situation,
EKM

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

RonG, Welcome to the board.

As much as I hate to say it....keep a camera with you since you have had obvious problems and document everything!! Yep, I know its a pain in the butt but...you almost have to do it. The last time I checked the federal regs it was legal to take care of a situation if you witnessed wolves attacking your livestock. Have it on film too! Then, there is NO way that your allegations could be refuted by anyone, even the feds JMO. As much as I do love wolves....I have friends that ranch out West myself and understand the situation well as they have been through the same situation. They documented and were reimbursed their loss.
It seems as if people see it in black and white with no grey inbetween........and when it comes to the Wolf there are many grey areas of uncertainty in the eyes of legalities. Good Luck!

EKM, You are correct that it has unfortunately turned into a rather "crappy" situation to say the least.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I admit it. I want to be the "top dog" predator when it comes to game animals. And I don't see anything wrong with that.

For those that want to bring wolves back because they used to be here: If you take that argument to its logical conclusion, you come up with what animal rights ultra liberal people want: do away with all livestock (they are not "natural"), do away with all development in the country, and do away with hunting.

If all historical predators were restored to historical levels, there is NO NEED for us to hunt. These predaotors evolved keeping game populations is check and there would be some fluctuations, but for the most part predators would do all the hunting for us. We don't really need to hunt at all do we?

Fact: wolves mean less game for hunters. Therefore, if you are REALLY in favor of reintroduction, why not give up your hunting tag for a wolf? How about lobbying your state really hard to reduce the number of tags allowed by 50% so wolves can be reintroduced?. Don't want to do that? No? Then are you really serious about reintroduction of wolves? Sure there will still be animals to hunt, but not as many.

Anyone who says that coyotes don't eat lots of fawns and wolves don't eat lots of calves is only kidding themselves. I think we all agree that wolves are very intellegent creatures. Which would you try to catch if you were a wolf, a big very fast adult elk or a young, slower, dumber calf? There aren't always "old" and "sick" ones around for easy picking.

If people who have wolves now want to keep them, so be it, but don't force those that don't have them anymore to reintroduce them.

More and more scientific evidence is coming out that unchecked populations of coyotes are one of the major reasons for the decline of mule deer. Mark my words: if wolves are reintroduced to historic levels, elk populations will follow the same path.

We have to choose: do we want to hunt or do we want to let nature take care of itself?

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

:)HMMMmmmmm... like I said..
Survival of the fittest..and EVOLVE people!
Ya might wanna check out the Elk Foundation and the Wildlife Federation and how much dough they threw in fer ya too..;)

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

MinnFinn, It's like talking an anti-hunter into going hunting with you. It just ain't happening. I grew up in Northern MN (Babbitt) and back in the late 60's there were alot of deer to hunt. Since they've protected the wolves those deer numbers have gone down considerably and of course every fall the DNR says that there are alot of deer to sell their licenses. The problem is that people don't like the government shoving their programs up our @sses and this is just another example. My sister in law sees them all the time when walking in the early mornings and my brother sees alot of them when driving to Tower to work. The DNR claims that there are 2500 wolves but you can probably double that figure. It's a different world than it was and you don't see game depts introducing elk into all of their native habitat as they would catch hell from the farmers. Maybe we are being greedy but we are on top of the food chain. Is there a place for wolves?? Possibly in very limited numbers but the problem is that government won't control them. There has been talk of delisting them in MN for some time and I won't hold my breath on that one. The tree huggers will fight that one forever and it will keep going on with appeal after appeal. I challenge those who haven't lived amongst them to go to northern Mn or Western Wyoming, walk into a local bar, and start talking about how you love wolves. The bar floor will be a lonely place in a hurry...

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Ever notice how MOST of the wolf lovers live in or around the cities????? There's a reason for that!!!! They don't have to live with the wolves!!

Drilling Man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

you guys could alway move to alaska, hell we shoot them out of planes. The over abundance of bears here is really tearing down the moose populations and there are lots of bear/people encounters too. So the liberals think that it would be a great time to get involved and purpose a bear baiting ban legislation.. Thanks guys, you can guess which way I will be voting. Bear baiting is a very effective way to control bear populations, I would like to see brown bear baiting legalized too.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Yer right Josh! and I think they should re-introduce the griz in Calif since there are so many people there they should do well!:D

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

One of my favorite areas in south central Idaho has been destroyed by wolves. The area didn't and still doesn't recieve a lot of hunting pressure and it had a lot of elk. Even the IDFG knew there was a lot of elk It was nothing to see 150 to 200 elk per day while bowhunting. But now for the last four years the wolves have been strong in the area and elk are becoming fewer and fewer. My wife and a friend drew (early rifle hunt) out in this area this year and I hunted with them for 10 days. We saw at most 50 elk the entire trip, we saw only 3, ONLY 3!!! six point bulls. My wife did miss one of the bulls. And I know some of you say so what you still saw a few elk and you did see three 6 point bulls. But to go from seeing 150 elk a day with 4-7 or so mature 6 point bulls or bigger per day, to this well it makes me very sad and very worried. It makes me wonder are there going to be any elk at all in four more years in that area. I know one thing I will be at the top of the food chain and join the SSS club if a wolf and I cross paths.