RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Quoting information from a bunch of obviously biased articles isn't helping your argument.

I can come up with twenty independent, university studies that refute every single thing that you said. Who is right? The scientists? The ranchers? The guy who is "on the ground?" Give me a break. The ranchers don't have a clue about the big picture, they can't see past their pocketbook. I'm not saying I blame them, ranching is hard way to make a living.

They don't have access to the data and they aren't qualified to interpret the data. That is my opinion and it's validity is reinforced everytime one of the overblown so-called "hunters" (aka rednecks) replies to threads like these.


It all boils down to:
1. hate and fear of the government
2. hate and fear of things they don't understand
3. ignorance: refusing to put themselves in someone else's shoes and realize there is 50 sides to every wildilfe issue.


This is the set pattern that is followed both on this board and in public meetings. There seems to be two groups of people: those who are capable of seeing more than one side of an issue and those with blinders on that can't understand a view other than their own. It's a sad way to go through life.

Which group are you in?

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

My sympathies to those of you who live in the rural areas of western states, where the last admin, under Sec. Bruce forced Grey Wolves (Timber Wolves) into your states. From over 30 years of making many of the same impassioned arguments about controlling the wolf population to prevent devastating game populations and livestock, I can tell you, we’re fighting a battle while climbing a mountain. It’s that difficult to get those who see the warm and fuzzy pictures and sometimes “live with” some of these animals that’ve been raised outside of the wild, to see the realities and destruction an over abundance of very intelligent, highly skilled predators can bring about over thousands of square miles. (Obviously, I’m talking about many packs of these animals.)

Don’t be intimidated by the “experts” like David Mech that some quote. My family lives within 40 miles of this “Learning Center” he runs to indoctrinate little minds of mush they bring up in school buses every year. He, like many of his kind, also have an extreme “environmental” agenda, which includes creating millions of acres of “corridors” where there will be many of the “natural” species, but no humans, except of course a few “experts” who’ll need to study the effects of all of their grand plans.

For my experience, people who haven’t lived near heavy populations of Timber Wolves and other large predators in the wild are very unsympathetic and often have unrealistic ideas that an unlimited number of these predators “the more the better” mentality in someone else’s backyard (yours and mine), while they enjoy their cities, horse farms, pets that don’t get grabbed out of their yards while their kids and moms watch in horror.

Cristina, I know you are well read and have some experiences with non-wild wolves. It’s not the same. One correction for you, too. If you had livestock that you saw killed by a wolf, you can’t go out and shoot it! The fines and jail time (federal crime) are many tens of thousands and many years in prison. Sensible people here have tried to get the wolf de-listed from the “endangered species” list in our state, so reasonable measures like being able to protect your animals and family from these predators. So far, that hasn’t happened.

That’s the reality people in northern MN, some of Wisconsin, have for decades and now rural people other states like Wyoming and Montana are beginning to live with. And virtually no one who lives outside these areas cares. It’s a terrible shame. But that’s the cold, hard reality.

Good luck!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Brutal Attack You need to read the title of this post. This thread is for people who do not like wolves.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

If you weren't completely ignorant to biological science you would understand the importance of these "corridors". Sadly, you dont understand so you react with hate and fear.

You just don't get it. Your not the only one that matters. Rural people aren't the only people that matter. Your opinion is only one of many. This is a democratic society and the majority rules. Your view of wildlife is no more valid than some city slickers view. Regardless of how self centered you are.



Get your facts right. Ranchers have always had the right to shoot a wolf they see attacking their livestock.

Jesus Christ you people make it sound like wolves are running rampant in the streets eating babies. Give us a break. Stop with the fearmongering.

What should they care about? The miniscule amount of livestock lost to wolves every year? Is that really harming the rancher that much? You do know they are reimbursed for loses right? How many people have been killed by wolves lately? We make the choice to live in rural areas. Certain responsibilities come with that life. Your like the people who live 45 miles from the nearest fire district then when their houses get nuked by wildfire they sue the government for not stopping the fire.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Brutal,

By way of your last three posts, you have provided insights about the culture of the scientific community (especially the "softer" sciences) that I have always suspected were endemic.

Now I see them in black and white.
Thanks for the re-affirmation of my beliefs.

EKM

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

BrutalAttack I repeat this thread was not started with the wolf lover in mind.
You need to pull your head out & go to work on a working cattle ranch. Your whole years wages are paid when you take your cattle to market. The cattle are everything to a rancher. Every cow does count! Every cow is not always paid for. When the cows are paid for they are paid at an estimated weight & price.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Brutal
First off if you want to say that I know nothing that’s fine I can take it, but to say that none of the quotes I made are true is wrong. Unless you want to call the person from the Montana State University, the US Fish and Wildlife Service and the people that wrote the National Park Service Documents and those who done the EIS Studies liars then I suggest you contact them and say there studies are not factual. How am I to believe you about the Independent University Studies, that’s kind of a two way street. And you’re telling everyone that these institutions don’t have the data or have access to the data when they’re some of the very people doing the studies and wrote the data.
I have clearly tried to see both sides of the issue here but to see that, you have to look at the long-term affect.
That means if you’re an outdoors person, who hunts, you will be left without the right to hunt some day so you have to manage the renewable resource. That means everything from predators to ungulates.
To say that the ranchers don’t have a clue when they live by and pasture their livestock outside of where the wolves were introduced. I hope when I go to ask permission to hunt on a rancher’s property I still can.
Also unless the wolf becomes de-listed a rancher has to have a permit to shoot a wolf unless the wolf is caught in the act of attacking livestock. There is legislation in the works to change when a rancher can kill a wolf.
Yes there is a lot of numbers floating around here and statistics and different information but we all can research and make up are own biased opinions.

Yes at times I both hate and fear the Government as do a lot of people.
Do I fear and hate things I don’t understand you bet that’s real life.
Do I have ignorance yes I do if I believe in something its called being stubborn because I think I’m right and you think your right and that’s are own opinions.
Where do I stand? Well I am defiantly for any species so long as they are managed.

What is your stand?

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

i like wolves but thats pretty funny

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

This has an easy solution, with wolves spreading like wildfire it won`t be long and they`ll eat all the elk in the western states. Then the secret plan will come to light. Us Canadians will sell you wolf resistant elk at an enourmous cost(enough to guarantee our F&G departments are funded for years) We may even throw in some wolf hardy moose too but don`t count on it, we like our moose too much.;) Remember where these wolves came from. Just ask Kenny, we`re a sneaky bunch, hiding behind our 5% beer and that crazy metric system(made just to confuse Americans) Long live our cyborg wolves, let the slaughter begin!;)

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

To Brutal the Biologist.


Ok Iam not a biologist I dont have a degree in anything just K - 12th grade. Let me see if I can figure this out .

Put wolves in elk and deer country wolf population gose up elk and deer population goes down till it hits the spot where the elk and deer can maintain the wolf population so it evens out . This much my simple mind can figure out.

My question biologist after every thing evens out where does the hunter fit in?