not for the wolf lovers
 

simple but to the point

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I am going to use this picture for my new computer background. I love it.
As you can tell by my handle, I am not offended.:D I have a shirt that says Montana wolf management team member. The wolf is in the crosshairs on my shirt also. I have never had a granola eating, bunnie huggin, veggin wacko say one bad word about my shirt.;)

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

very nice, very nice indeed!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Awesome!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

"Protect your heritage'? and what "heritage" is that? Pretty stupid if you ask me.Wolves have as much right to exist as anything else on this planet!!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that the wolves had their heritage here long before there was a cattle ranching heritage. In fact I would be willing to bet that the wolves had their heritage before humans discovered fire or invented the wheel much less ranching cattle.

It's just a matter of humans being as greedy as possible with the earths resources. Most want to eleminate a much competition as possible so we can have it all to ourselves.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

OK, i admit it! I consider myself a "higher" form of animial than a wolf!!!

Are any of you wolf lovers liveing in a space that was once used by wolves??????????? Are any of you eating or killing game animials that could be food for wolves?????? "If" you answered "yes" to either, then your a hypocrite!!

Now that YOUR takeing up "there" space, and killing or eating "there" food, you want to push those wolves to some place else, where maybe the people there don't want them!! (read---------> "ME")

OK, OK, send them on over to my place, but please send them a little at a time, so "i" have time to reload!!!

Drilling Man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

well now i strongly disagree

i have a hellava lot more right to exist here then some fleeridden mutt

animals do have rights and the first is to live long enough to feed my phat a$$

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

jjt, what makes you supperior to wolves????Obviously not your attitude.....would you eat a wolf???Afterall, thats what killing game is all about.....food to feed your phat a$$. Thats exactly why wolves kill, to eat. If you can't handle ther natural order of the outdoors,maybe you should take up birdwatching....you might learn something,but I doubt it:D

As for wanting to push them off on someone else, not at all. Wolves are welcome in my hunting grounds anytime, I'd rather share space with them than a lot of other so-called hunters.....I have before and would again

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I am far from a tree hugger but I also believe wolves inhabited this earth long before we ever became civilized. We should respect them like any other critter that was created. There is nothin quite like the long eery call from a wolf, its something that is just to intense to put into words. They are a truly fascinating animal and along with plainsman i don't have a problem at all sharing my hunting grounds with them. Yes they do kill deer, elk , moose etc but this is just natures way of balancing things out. The wolf population should also be kept a a steady number by hunting/trapping etc. but this does not mean kill one when ever you get the chance. If you guys open your minds a bit you will see there is no threat of having a few wolves around as long as the popultion is controlled just like any other animal.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Hey plainsman,

Maybe you don't mind haveing a wolf in your hunting area, but how about in your back yard??????????????????????? That's the problem, they won't stay in your hunting area!!!! There use to be dinasours ect.. here too, you want to bring them back too??????????

"If" you want to see a wolf, go to a zoo, or better yet, head for the Alaskan or Canadian bush!!!! Don't stick me with YOUR desire to see a wolf, as i've already seen plenty, and i've also seen what they can and WILL do to an area once they settle in!!!

Drilling Man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Being and Idahoan I have an up close and personal response to the wolf debate. I have looked closely at both sides of the argument and have followed the wolf re-introduction efforts for this state.

I agree with some of you with the fact that a wolf has every right to be here as we do. Unlike the dinosaurs, mammoths, and sabertooth tigers, the wolves were taken to near extinction by un-natural means. Therefore, to some degree, I agree to try to preserve the speicies from extinction by re-introduction. Not just to see the speicies restored to the wild, but also allow for future hunting and trapping opertunities in the lower 48.

However, I strongly disagree with the way that they went about the re-introduction process.

First off, in Idaho, they introduced a different species of wolf. They used Canadian wolves, a larger breed of wolf than the original species that roamed this area. These larger wolves (about 30 to 50 lbs heavier than the original breed) are a more dominant predator that target the larger animals (elk herds). This more dominant breed has taken off in numbers since the introduction in the late 80's, early 90's. The elk have been hit the hardest by the wolf population boom. The elk herds of Idaho have decreased 30% in size since the re-introduction. The wolf has also pushed the couger out of the back country into more populated areas, and we are seeing more couger related instances (attacks on dogs, children, and some adults) causing the knee jerk reaction of killing the couger responsible for the attacks.

Secondly, I am upset with the way the government has handled the control of the population, or lack thier of. Until recently it was a federal crime to shoot a wolf. I could understand that back when they were in danger of extinction, but the change in control laws have been too slow in the process to keep up with the population boom. Today the Idaho wolf packs are strong and threatening to be overpopulated in the predator to prey ratio. The general public can shoot a wolf only if the wolf threatens you, your family, or your property. The federal government is now waiting for the States to come up with a plan for control. The problem with this is the 3 States involved (Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming) have to all have a plan at the same time. So as the control efforts are wrapped up in red tape, the wolves continue to breed unchecked.

Finally, one of Idaho's main incomes is from tourism, and a good chunk if that is hunting dollars from the elk hunts. The wolves main prey is elk (remember the 30% decrease in elk population). The economic effects of the wolf re-introduction has already been felt.

Eventually there will be a control measure, but unfortunatly it is comming to late. The damage has been done just to appease the minority "environmentalists" who want to hear the cry of the wolf.

Do you know what is next on their adgenda? The re-introduction of the grizzly bear. They'll probably ship some Alaskan Browns down for that one.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

the fact that i am an upright walking, living, breathing, and thinking HUMAN

plainsman your not one of those PETA tards who think animals are above humans are you??

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

What!!??....are you f@c!ed in the head??Do a search on my posts and you'll get your answer to that. I just happen to believe wolves have as much right to exist as any other animal.I've had numerous encounter with WILD wolves while elk hunting and never ever felt the least bit threatened.....not once!!! Wolves are predators and predators kill....it's their instinct and means of survival. No animal should be condemed for it's instinct. Do you want to kill every bear you see.... or eagle,bobcat etc. Should all predators be killed for doing what comes naturally??
As for you DM, a few well placed shots over their heads or at their feet will definately help educate them to stay out of the "backyard".It works for coyotes and other predators as well as wolves.
Dinosaurs huh? How much for a tag?

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Man some people just can`t hunt elk and deer when they have competition from wolves. Instead of bitching about them LEARN TO HUNT!! Hell we`ve always had wolves and we have lots of deer and moose and I think Alberta still has lots of elk. The anti wolf movement has done more to help PETA then the seal hunt. Trouthunter, can you post a link about the Canadian wolves that are geneticly different from the wolves in the Lower 48. Other than the Red Wolf that lives in the Carolinas I thought all were Grey wolves.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I am far superior to the wolf, I can reason far better than the wolf. I can grow my own food, preserve it, and have learned how to feed the world in the least amount of space. I have taught man to fish so I no longer have to feed him. He has become self sufficient. I (man) have created solutions to problems that threaten my survival.

The wolf ? Does not reason, cares only for it's own kind and survival and does not share in helping other species to survive. A wolf will not teach other predators how to feed themselves. A wolf does not care if I survive or not. A wolf will kill until there is nothing left to kill.

I (man) AM the balance of nature. I learned my lesson and self regulated myself. I learned another lesson and regulated the wolf. I am superior to ALL animal species, God gave me dominion over ALL animals on the earth.

They (the wolf) were controlled before and they will be controlled again. Regardless of what feel gooders think.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

All bow to me, for I am man.I am all powerful...I can and have detroyed thousands of lives in one fell swoop. I can reason how to create war...how to rob banks and stores...how to rape that 14yr. old girl at the playground....how much heroine I need for a day and who to kill to get it. I can create and preserve food....just in case someone bombs me before I get them, my shelter must be well supplied.I have learned to destroy life with bullets,by splitting atoms and creating bio-chemical warfare.All bow at my feet...for I am far superior to all living creatures....and if anything gets in my way, just watch me exterminate it.....because I can. I am the supreme being.I am man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

In reading the rest of your post you sure seem to resemble this statement.

Comparing a wolf or any other animal to humans is like comparing apples to a television set.

Yep and right along with these solutions we simply create a never ending list of new and larger problems.

Yeah, Man has done such a good job so far.:eek: From New York City to nuclear weapons we sure know how to ballance this world huh.

Actually wolves are incredibly intelligent animals. Far more intelligent than you want to give them credit for.

Why should it care if you survive or not. You don't care if it survives or not.

This is one of the biggest fallacies I have heard in a looooooooooooong time. Man is far from being self regulated. Please spare us this hog wash.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

"a few well placed shots over their heads or at their feet will definately help educate them to stay out of the "backyard".

Get REAL!!! we have a coyote problem where i live NOW, and all the "shooting around them" does, is to teach them to be sneaky(er)!! The only way i've found to fix the problem is, to aim AT THEM, not around them!!!

Years ago a biologist friend told me, they (coyotes) would only be so brazen if "they had a problem"!!! (rabies or something like that) After i shot and delivered a few to him for "inspection", he finally told me, "just shoot them, don't bring them to me"!!!

Compared to wolves, coyotes are pissants!!! Bigger predator, bigger problem!!! Just thank your lucky stars that bears don't run in packs!!! AND, that they don't have to eat all winter!!!

Drilling Man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

WOW reading these posts is like watching Apes bang their chest for dominance.
REINTRODUCTION! Should have never happend. Use your common sense man.They were killed off for a reason
Man has encroached on all the Elk and Deer habit pushing them into the woods. They can no longer have the range they once did. They are all bottled up like fish in a barrel. Now we put in the Wolf to go unchecked.....
The Wolf will work just not here in the lower 48 if you want a huntable population of other game species.[:@]
The Elk were once a plains animal. If you want the Wolf reintroduced set an example for us all and move to Mexico so that you can start the proccess of giving the land back to the animals.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

it ceases to amaze me how many people that live with them hate them and how many people that live elsewhere want them

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

booyaa kill all wolves and dont forget cougers they kill up to or more than 56 deer a year:) made this my background also booya

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Just pounding my chest I guess. Not comparing just stating fact. I've noticed you picked up on a few things, that's good. If the wolf was smart it would have re-introduced itself. But we are smarter we are doing it for them.
It's sad but true that the Human is the top of the food chain and competition is our strong suit. I really wish I could run around naked and eat just the fruit off the trees and the grass in the fields but God didn't make me that way. I know that.

Cause and effect, what man has caused affects the world and I believe that there is solution to all the problems we have caused. I also know when I have a good thing going and when I see others trying to fix my good thing I get a little bent. I have heard of solutions to the wolf problem that would prove that man is dominant, and quite frankly that scares me.Solutions like "why don't we re-introduce canine distemper into the wolf populations that certainly would be a quick fix". Instead I choose to voice an opinion that the Wolf re-introduction is wrong, opt to let our legal system work the problem to a viable reasonable solution, and go on enjoying my little part of the country. In fact I enjoy it enough that maybe reducing the numbers of game tags for out of state hunters isn't such a bad thing after all. You are still welcome to come here and look at our re-introduced populations of wolf. Now who says that the problems man creates are all bad?

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Very true,and isn't is a great coincidence that most of the wolf supporters live in the city and not in rural areas.They want to be able to go out to the country to hear and see the wolves now and then but they will never have to deal with the problems that the re-introductions cause.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

My final word on this subject is that as long as hunters, ranchers etc. stay this divided than the antis are going to win. We must find some common ground to this debate or the antis will use it to turn us on ourselves(as is already the case).

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

stubblejumper

You've hit the nail squarely on the head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Problem is, now that you've said something so "sensible", "someone" is going to come along and accuse you of being a "know it all"!!! :>)

Drilling Man

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Here I am thumping again - this is in response to no one in particular.

There are things that man has done for money and greed that makes me sick, and there are things that man has done for fellow man that makes me see that there is hope. Regardless of what some may say or feel about this, Man has dominion over every creature on this earth, we do not own them we use them to our benefit. Man sees a problem and WITH REASON does what is necessary to solve the problem. In the case of the wolf re-introduction, it is a plan that benefits only a few and costs many.

The solution to controlling the re-introduced wolf problem is not being heard because a few do not agree with the verbage "Predator". That is to the detriment of the few being affected by a forced re-introduction of the wolf.

What do you do for a living? Does it help your fellow man? Are you happy to be doing your work?

Would you want me to come in and make it more difficult for you to be happy in your work helping your fellow man?

If you chose to live the lifestyle out here why would you want to create problems that make that lifestyle more difficult? Why would you think that I'd just lay down and let some city bred animal rights activist tell me I have a problem because there are no wolves to be seen in my neck-o-the woods. My home/lifestyle/work is not a vacation spot/zoo/themepark for people who feel bad about being people.

I may not agree with your bumper sticker but I will defend your right to stick it.

I will wait for the courts to decide.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

If they're killing my cattle. they'll die. If i'm deer hunting ad see one, i'm not going to shoot it. Sure they're pretty and they have the right to kill deer, elk, rabbits,etc. If they take down an elk it doesn't mean the elk population is plummeting. what the hell is wrong with u guys

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Been working on this for a few....needed and wanted to say something however I do not live in the west, am not a rancher. This may be a one time post but I am not known for my post and runs either....Consider this my thoughts for now is all I can say.... I will answer when I have the time ASAP Thanks:)

I have refrained from posting on this topic for a reason....I live with one(a Wolf that my young son and I consider a pet), and another that is a Hybrid. I have studied Wolves even before reintroduction became an issue...for some 30+ years. An expert I am not, but I do know one thing....I have seen some very good and admirable posts made by several members on this forum. You know well who you are, Thank you! In addition, to compare Wolves to yotes is like apples to oranges! You do not know what your talking about when it comes to the differences of canids...wild or not...... Yes I know rather well how Wolves kill in the wild, and I do not belong to Peta either! I respect the animal for exactly what it is, a high level predator that is very similar to humans with their social relations, and how they maintain to survive. Not talking story books...just the truth. Wolf lover...yes, perhaps. But if one were to kill one of my livestock I would also drop it? Yep, if it was an ongoing problem you can be sure that I would. I like to consider all aspects....and the Wolf issue is one of those aspects. Hell, The antis have already won this round...quite simply because no one takes the time to understand the animal! Call me what you will, say what you will....after over 30 years of research I know better!! Some here on this thread speak with a rational tongue....and some do not. Some quite simply just hate Wolves and their competition with your hunting, or livestock.....If we lose the Wolf once again, we will loose them forever!!!! Sorry folks but for me their voice is the true voice of Wilderness and what this country once was.....and never will be again! Nuff said from this lady.......for now. If I continued I may have to ban myself.......

P.S. For the member that mentioned about Canadian Wolves as opposed to NA Wolves...and the size difference. There is somewhat of a size difference involved...on in the sense that in Canada the Wolves have had the genetic need to develop to the colder climate....the size difference can vary at times. However you were correct that most all are considered Canis Lupus and as such, one and the same!!!
Take heed on what you wish for some of you, as those of you are against a species that will surely and eventually be regulated....you want to demolish(sp) rather than regulate!!!!! Pathetic!!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

i can't believe some of this junk i am reading. has no one here ever heard of compromise?!?!?!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Well I'd be D***** there are several words that come to mind here..
1)evolution
2) survival (of the fittest)
3)Why? (Does any one of you even have the faintest clue as to WHY the wolf was reintroduced?) and
4)Who? (Does any one of you have any idea WHO was the greatest proponent of this great "save the wolf" campaign?)
Y'all are arguing (just like THEY want you to be) Y'all are "hiit'n the ol' nail on the head... (just miss'n the point!)
I think the first two words are self explanitory however, ask around and see how many of you "avid hunters" contributed to this event and didn't even know it. There were two very large "contributions" made to this endeavor by organizations that claim to be "making better ELK habitat" and that claim to put most of their funds (given by well meaning people like yourselves) into developement of wild big game species. You ask yourself WHO? YOU DID!!
WHY? well, if you didn't realize it before now, there are many people out there that would really like to see our guns destroyed.... one of the reasons that this has not happened yet is that we have been living in a "free" country where people have loved to hunt and fish for generations, now we have a new generation that doesn't care wether they do or don't. So if we no longer have anything to hunt... or they are mostly on the endangered list... then what the heck do ya need guns for.... ??? Getting back to 1 and 2... SURVIVAL OF THE FITTEST!!
EVOLVE!!!

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

elktalk83810 Welcome to the board. I can tell I am going to like you already. I have been by your elk farm many times. I used to duck hunt moffit slew before I moved to Montana.
I will refrain from any comments on this post. Everyone should know how I feel about wolves, just read my handle.:D

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

Anyone who says wolves should be gone based on the "survivial of the fittest" and they were gone for a reason and then loves elk only makes himself look a fool. Remember the elk were nearly wiped out brought back and reintroduced in many areas. You can't cry foul with one hand and say good job with the other without looking dumb.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I think we have pretty well hashed over items 1) evolution and 2) survival (of the fittest) to the point of saturation BUT....

The OTHER two items brought up by ElkTalk83810 could use investigating:
3)Why? (Does any one of you even have the faintest clue as to WHY the wolf was reintroduced?) and
4)Who? (Does any one of you have any idea WHO was the greatest proponent of this great "save the wolf" campaign?)

Would make for some interesting reading if the facts are available. If they are, then things may become a little more black and white. It could end up as a "Paul Harvey" scenario.... "Now you know the REST of the story!"

I'm not sure it will lend itself to the much loved scientific method, but could still be very interesting and informative. Is this information available?

EKM

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

EKM, Did not need to investigate it...to be honest just do not have much time to go thru my library. ;) Being a single mom finding the time to do all can be tough, this board is my relaxation of sorts in the evenings. LMBO!!! Yeah right!

Some of what I know and a few links may help. Many links are out there some for and some against Wolves. If I have the time this week I will go upstairs and get some book titles for you....not from the web, but the ones I learned and understand from.

Dr. David Mech an expert on Wolves was one of the premier wildlife biologist's involved with the Wolf reintroduction project.....of course many others were involved. The project was one to reintroduce the Grey Wolf(Canis Lupis), one of North America's primary predator's to the Wilderness as a way of controlling and making the Elk population stronger. As has been said survival of the fittest! Here are a couple of sites with information I may/may not agree with but it is a source of information. Along with the Wolf laws as they stand now in many Western states. I do not trust the gov. to deregulate...although I do feel in some states it is needed. Black and White EKM?? Perhaps....and for some it will always be a Grey area. No pun intended my friend. Most respect but do not understand the need for regulation..I most certainly do, even though I love wolves for a reason. Will our government do it?? Sooner than you think perhaps...I for one hope they do but with discretion.
If they were legal to hunt and a problem in my state I would certainly hunt them, as I do coyotes here in WV....they are not yotes though. Like I said comparing Wolves to yotes depends on who you talk to, or perhaps what state you live in....either way, it is comparing apples to oranges. I used to love these debates but unfortunately do not have the time to wrangle with them on a daily basis. Still gotta love em though.

http://species.fws.gov/species_accounts/bio_gwol.html
http://www.environmentalreview.org/vol03/fritts.html

Now...Get these regs!!! Do they make any sense...ie: the government contradicting itself again???

You may legally:

* harass a wolf without injuring it, but you must report it within seven days;
* kill or injure a wolf that is killing, wounding, or biting your cattle, sheep, horses, mules, or burros on your private or tribal land, but you must report it within 24 hours;
* kill, injure, or harass a wolf in defense of human life, but you must report it within 24 hours.

You may not legally:

* kill or injure a wolf just because it is near you or your property;
* kill or injure a wolf that attacks your pet;
* kill or injure a wolf feeding on dead livestock;
* enter official closures around occupied release pens, active dens, and rendezvous sites;
* shoot a wolf because you thought it was a coyote or something else (you are responsible for identifying your target before shooting)
* attempt to do any of the above actions or solicit someone else to do them.

Violations of the above rules may subject you to prosecution. Criminal penalties may be up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $100,000.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

It took sometime but this was one of the things I was looking for... I am a woman that hunts, rather well I might add. I pride myself on being a stewerd to the land I love and respectful of all she gives me. I am fit and worthy....but repectful to her and her creatures above all else! Oh yeah, almost forgot...I have evolved.[8D]
You may not like it....but read it.....dang it really read it and try to find the meaning. This has nothing to do with Anti's it has to do with us and an understanding as hunters!


A little more than 50 years ago, the manuscript of a book by a relatively unknown University of Wisconsin professor named Aldo Leopold was accepted for publication. A Sand County Almanac has long since been enshrined as one of the world's environmental masterpieces. In the opening paragraph, Leopold reveals the vast, momentous creature that means so much to the deer, the coyote, the cowman, the hunter, the pine, and the mountain: The wolf.

Leopold's conviction towards the wolf was changed forever on the day in his youth when he saw a wolf die. Aldo Leopold and a friend of his opened up on the wolves, never wanting to pass up a chance to kill a wolf in those days. When their rifles were empty, the old wolf was down. They reached the old wolf in time to watch "that fierce green fire dying in her eyes. I realized then," wrote Leopold, "and have known ever since -- that there was something new to me in those eyes -- something known only to her and the mountain." He saw the green fire in the wolf's eyes die, and since then he recognized his brutal error.

Leopold wrote that since that day, he has seen the wolves driven to the brink of extinction and the wolfless mountains defoliated by the exploding deer herds. And he suspected, just as the deer herd lived in mortal fear of its wolves, so does the mountain live in mortal fear of its deer. And perhaps with better cause, for while the buck pulled down by wolves can be replaced in two or three years, a deer's range pulled down by too many deer, may never be replaced. In essence: The wilderness we hunt is the salvation of the world, to paraphrase Thoreau. It must not be destroyed.

Perhaps this is the hidden meaning in the howl of the wolf, long known by the mountain, but seldom understood by men. Just as Leopold came to realize, so must we: that wildlife populations are a part of a bigger picture, and that no matter what new game laws are passed, wildlife populations will not improve until the carrying capacity of the land that supports them improves.

In his last paragraph, Leopold reels the reader in. To paraphrase: In our lives, we all think about that which will better ourselves and secure ourselves, but those who look for a little temporary safety instead of wildlife understanding deserve neither. We should look to help secure the blessings of wildlife before we secure the blessings of ourselves because "in wildness is the salvation of the world."

And in that very wildness continues our right to hunt! IMHO....Nuff said for now.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I was thinking more in terms as to who the players were that started the ball rolling here in the lower 48 as to how we got from "got no wolves" to "wow, need to go get some wolves". Operationss such as this are not born full grown complete with their own government budget and staff overnight. There is an starting point (often based in testimony and hearings), a gestation period (proposals and structure building), before things just "take off" (the first government allocation of funds).

In terms of the players who were present at the beginning, I wonder: whose money, whose time, whose push was it that got it going in the beginning?

Was it sportsmen?
Was it wildlife folks?
Was it the Sierra Club?
Was it PETA?

I don't know, it could tell an interesting tale.

EKM

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

EKM I know that the Sierra Club and The Defenders of Wildlife were two of the big ones and a Forest Service Official from Washington was another.
I have looked through so many articles in the last two days that I'm dizzy.
I will see if I find the artical.
The one fact that boggles my mind is when they did the study to reintroduce the wolf they predicted that the wolves would kill an estimated 1800 animals a year and you wonder why some sportman are outraged at not maging the wolf.
I cannot remember the exact number but they said in the one study that when they reached a certain number of breeding pairs that they were to be delisted.

Nough said.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I don't feel like joining the debate at this point but I will make a few comments about some false information. I'm a wildlife biologist in central Idaho.....as if that matters.

Everything in this paragraph false. I don't know where you got this information but it wasn't from the scientific community involved in the reintroduction.

Elk are the primary prey yes. However, I think some people ignore the fact that the elk herds were in decline long before the reintroduction program. Wolves aren't helping the situation, but the blame can't rest solely on them. Habitat issues have been impacting elk since the 80's.


Again this is total bull. Please guy, educate yourself a little before making statements regarding things you know nothing about.

Ok, since the wolf isn't managed as a game animal, can you think of any other instances were you should be able to shoot a wolf? You want to be able to shoot it if you see one chasing an elk? Come on.

Where do you get this 30%? Are you out flying with Fish and Game counting elk? Don't spout off false information in an effort to further your argument.

Everyone has a different value of wolves and wildlife in general. Just because it doesn't fall in line with your negativistic view of nature doesn't mean it isn't valid. Your not the only person who has a right to value nature, either positivly or negativly.

RE: not for the wolf lovers
 

I was going to quit replying to this thread but when I read article after article about Wyoming, Montana and Idaho. The wolf numbers are geting out of check and it is compromising not only hunting opportunities and devistating game populations and in some cases eliminating a season for moose in Wyoming.
Then these articles that list Fish Wildlife and Parks and the USFS must be lies so should I believe whats writen or what I see happening at ground level.
Here are a few of quotes from a very exstensive article.