Or do you??As the years go on, it would appear that more and more new hunters are led to think that magnums are a must for big game, ie. moose, elk and such. I just don' t understand this reasoning.Seems to me 40yr. ago moose and elk were being harvested just as easily and effectively with the standbys of that era,30.06,308 and even the 303 brit as they are with todays magnums. Granted, the magnums allow for somewhat longer shots, thus allowing stalking skills to fade or never develop at all.True, long range shooting is a developed skill, but it is a shooting skill not a hunting skill. Hunting and shooting are not always in the same catagory.
I heard one guy say " I shot it [elk] in the arse and the bullet went all the way through and came out the front" when talking of his pet mag. gun. To me, this is only self-justification for impatience and advocating poor shot placement.I' d much rather be patient enough to make a well placed shot than to do anything as stupid as taking a shot at the rear end and hoping the bullet makes up for my lack of judgement and patience.

I guess it comes down to " whatever floats your boat" . If a magnum is what you must use, then by all means, go for it. As for me, I' ll stick to my 30.06, it is, afterall, responsible for the untimely demise of more N. American game and every species of it, than any other round ever thats ever come out the barrel.
Just my 2 cents.

The cartridge that you use does not in any way make you more or less of a hunter.Just because you use a 30-06 does not mean that you are by any means a better hunter than a fellow that uses a magnum.A hunter should be judged by his skills and not the cartridge that he uses.As far as the 30-06 having taken more big game of every north american species that is a very broad statement that can' t be proven.If however you look at the tenth edition of Boone & Crocket records(the only one that I own) the 30-06 leads in entries for 8 species.The 7mm mag has more entries than the 30-06 for 13 species.The 300 mag has more entries than the 30-06 for 14 species.

plainsman, I agree with most of what you say. You must remember hunting is a changing sport in many areas. Out west we still hunt animals on millions of acres of public land & Wilderness. In many states there just is not enough public land so people belong to hunting clubs or lease land to hunt on. The hunting shows on T.V. show people sitting in elevated box blinds just sitting and waiting to shoot something. These elevated box blinds could offer a person in the right area a very long shot?
My father has shot his 30-06 for over 40-years. I shoot magnums, 300-win mag & 7mm STW are my go-to guns. Could I hunt with a 30-06 & take as many animals??? I sure think so but I doubt I will ever findout? I am looking at even bigger magmum rounds like the 338, 375 & 416. I just like big magnums.

There is nothing " wrong" with 30-06 for just about everything in N.A. , especially with 180' s like you mentioned earlier. I' ve been on other threads with you and had no problem agreeing with the bulk of your viewpoints (as best I recollect). Thus it is going to be tricky to say what comes next; too weak and the message don' t get across; too strong and you piss folks off, any how here goes....

At one point a 30-06 was considered over kill un-necessary, now its the North American standard. (God bless ya for saying its killed the most N.A. game of any cartridge -- I think you are right BUT that honor used to belong (supposedly) to the 30-30 -- times do change and what people reach for when it' s time to go hunting DOES change over time -- usually to the dismay of the " old timers" (the faithful) and their favorite irons).

My general observation is that if a big game hunter (not deer) has a rack of rifles chambered in modern cartridges covering a span from the low .20' s to high .30' s or even low to mid .40' s, then they are pretty objective (nothing to defend -- got them all) and when it' s time to hunt big game like elk, the bigs stuff makes the trip and the small to midlin' stuff stays home. There must be a reason they choose as they do (assuming no personal injuries or other issues that preclude them from handling the heavy stuff effectively) -- usually it has to do with what they see happen at the business end of the barrel in comparison to what they saw happen in the past at the business end of the barrel with their smaller cartridges.

Here is where I might get into trouble. When the largest cartridge you have a high power rifle chambered in is XX-XX and folks are talking and promoting cartridges above and beyond XX-XX based on their experience, then it is plum natural to poo-poo the trend and defend the historical greatness of what you have, and point out the needlessness of change -- not exactly the tenet our western culture is built upon.

I work several of these forums and I' m running into more and more folks who will on one hand absolutely defend the right of folks to hunt elk (for example) with 25-06' s and 270' s and such because they themselves have done it AND THEN IN THE SAME BREATH turn around and say, " but they can' t hold a candle to the 33 magnums like the 338WinMag and the 340WeatherbyMag and those are what I use on elk TODAY" . Once (if ever) you experience the " slap down" factor available with these rounds that have a Taylor KO Index over 30 on large N.A. game I doubt if you' ll ever want to give it back.

BTW, when I get into elk, most times they go right down but sometimes they run. When they run, I keep shooting until they are down or gone. If they make it out of sight, then I start tracking. If the last opportunity to nail them is as they reach the timber and the shot presented is straight up the pipe, then I' ll take it knowing what I' ve got is capable of that OR any other angle I may choose since I cannot control what is presented and a 5 day season is short.

It' s like the difference between just " holding hands" and " heavy necking" , both are good -- but one of them is a whole new ballgame and played at a whole new level and must be experienced first hand to be fully appreciated!

My penny,
EKM

In no way did I imply any such thing, I do however, believe in developing hunting skills instead of using a magnum round to compensate for lack of them.

So is that to imply the vast majority of game taken in the last 100yr is a mirror image of what b&c quotes as it' s numbers, ya, right By those figures the 300mag would be the top game-getter in N. America and we all know that just isn' t true. In my guesstimation, I' d say, without a doubt,the 30.06 is tops for sheer numbers, followed by,as EKM said, the 30-30. After that, who knows, maybe 270 or maybe 308, tough to say as nobody has been keeping records.I do know,I' ve heard of more game falling to the 30.06 than any other round, bar none.

That may very well be true, but I' ll never know unless I get a tag for Kodiak or Afoganuk Island for the big bear, as that would be the only time I might consider having a need for them.

BTW , just how well does a 338WIN. match up against a 375 H&H ??

I' ve been watching this thread for a couple of days now, not deciding what to say. I think there are a couple factors involved.

One is pure competition. Over time, the seasons have become shorter and more hunters are compressed into this time period. People have come up with ways to take advantage of these shorter seasons. One person gets a new magnum, and then shows it to a friend, and then someone sees a way to improve on that and so on. After time, people forget that elk were once shot almost exclusively with 06' s and .270' s. People begin taking longer shots because they feel that their super cartridge is capable of it, when in reality it is hitting with the same power at that distance that a " standard" cartridge is hitting at 150-200 yds closer. After these people get these new magnums, they simply have no reason to go back to the " standard" calibers. I do feel that some people do go about this prematurely and buy this big magnum, but don' t have the knowledge or time to properly prepare the rifle and load for a hunt, making things slightly worse. This is not the norm, I' m sure, but some people would be better off staying with " standard" calibers and stocking closer.

As far as the number of animals shot with whatever caliber, these are not good numbers to describe how many animals are killed. This is only a small percentage that of animals that are killed, and unfortunately, there are no numbers to prove one caliber over another.

By the way, I shoot a .30-06.

If rifle/cartidge manufacturers/" developers" would adhere to a consistent definition of the term " magnum" we would all be better off. Recently, Boddington wrote a great article addressing the exact point as Plainsman' s post. In any event, I believe that in search of humane kills, you should shoot the largest caliber you can get reasonable hunting accuracy with. I use a .416 Rem Mag for elk, and I think it is a superb caliber for that purpose (300 gr X). I know I am limited to about 250 yards with a good rest. I also know that if I see an animal, I can take the shot at any angle.

It appears the manufacturers use the term to boost sales, nothing more. I could shoot a .338 Lapua and have completely avoided the " magnum" craze, something the less powerful .338 Winnie could not.

My .416 Rem Magnum has similar ballistics to the .416 Rigby. Should I be chided for " magnumitis" , while the owner of the Rigby should not?

My .308 can kill any moose, elk, bou, bear just as dead as any magnum rifle! 95% of the oppurtunities ive had have been under 150 yards,, I have no need for a magnum,, a 180 grain .308 is deadly on anything at his range!

I see Plainsman' s point exactly - in the hands of people who know - rifle calibre can be a deliberate choice, or simple preference. His comments aren' t directed to all of the gun techies out there. I see, meet, hear of a lot of people who, for lack of a better term, " don' t know what they' re doing" . They seem to make calibre, and most other equipment choices, based on what' s cool and trendy, or even one-upmanship. Granted, I don' t think that applies to 99% of the people who post one here. It' s funny - there' s people on these boards that have been hunting dozens of years, and still willing to learn, or ask questions. We seem to have another crowd these days, that already knows it all. With 300 dollar boots they' ll never freeze, a GPS and they' ll never get lost, and a 300 magnum for a magic wand - they' re all set. I' m glad I' m poor - I' m still learning everything the hard way...

One fact that a person needs to consider is that when muzzleloaders were the common firearm and repeating rifles came out many people considered them unnecessary and wasteful.Then smokeless powder cartridges came out and they were looked at in the same way by many people.Then came the 308win and 30-06 which again were considered overkill by some people.When the 7mmremmag came out the situation was the same.At each change some people welcomed the new cartridges while others complained that they weren' t necessary.You can argue that the 30-06 is all that is required because many hunters still kill their game with the 30-06 but then again someone else will answer that the 30-06 is not necessary because they still kill their game with the 30-30.A muzzleloader hunter can then argue that all that is required is a muzzleloader since they killed game for hundreds of years.When I grew up the most common cartidge in use in my area was the 303 british.This was not because it was the most efficient cartridge but because they were readily available for a cheap price as surplus guns and ammo from the world wars.Therefore just being the most common cartridge does not make it the best cartridge.So one cartridge having killed more game than another does not mean it kills game any deader or any quicker than the another cartridge.
The bottom line is that a person should use what cartridge they like as long as they shoot it well.One should not try to tell others what cartridge is necessary and what cartridges are not necessary.There are some poor hunters using magnums and there are some poor hunters using 30-06' s so judging a hunters skill by the cartridge that he uses is not an intelligent move on anyones part.