mrbb

I have no problem with land owners closing there lands off to JOE PUBLIC
this is one of the main reasons why folks BUY there own land or anything
and they should n't HAVE to let anyone on there lands
that is 100% wrong
I get some land owners have issues with wildlife, and well, that's NOT really the land owners fault
they paid for the land, they shoudn't be forced to endure added issues from the public or the state interference

if they have crop damage, this is why there is crop insurances
and many farmers and land owners DO handle there crop damages on there own, most states require this by LAW!

opening up your land to the public adds a lot of risk and issues land owner just don;t want to endure!

they LEASE there lands as a way to help PAY for things, from the land itself to other things, there is NO reasons LAND owner shouldn;t be allowed to profit off there investments

folks that tend to bash land owners , are folks that DON"T own land themselves in my experience and don;t know the issue's land owners have, looking from the outside in, rather than being in there shoes!

private property is just that, be it land, a house a vehicle or??
its your's and the you should be able to freely do what you want on it if its legal! anything else with be just wrong IMO!

I personally have NO issue with paying to rent lease some land , to have the place ti myself and not have some JOE PUBLIC IDIOT walk in on me and ruin mt hunt, after traveling a thousand or two thousand miles to get to!
that's what I am paying for, and have no issue's if I can deem it in my price range and budget
I prefer of course to make friends with land owners and get free access, although its never free, as I always take good care of land owners that allow me access in gifts and such LOL
but I am fine with that too!

Bocajnala

I have to agree. As much as I hate the idea of leasing. A property owner should have that ability to make that choice. Just like any other service offered.

I also agree that if they choose that, they shouldn't benefit from some of the things that Flags pointed out. Such as getting damage permits when they don't allow(enough) game to be taken during regular seasons. I've shot on crop damage permits for several farms that don't allow hunters on. And that's always rubbed me the wrong way. Tons of deer and nice bucks running around. But they save all those for their families/friends (which I'm fine with) but then get the state to issue damage permits to shoot off doe. If they'd allow hunters in to shoot doe during season they wouldn't have as much of an issue through the growing season.

The obvious problem is that it's changing hunting into a money game. And will continue to do so. I worry about what that means for my kids as they grow up. And further down for my grandkids. Things have changed so much recently so quickly that I cannot see it improving.

Farms that used to call me asking me to come out and hunt and say "are you coming out to shoot some of these deer this year?" Are now getting $3,500/ per season. And I don't blame them. $3,500 is $3,500. And that's just one example of one 80 acre farm I used to hunt often.

I can't afford $3,500 to hunt deer each fall. But I can't fault a landowner for making money either.

It's sad to think about what that means for the future.

-Jake

Bocajnala

Also- If memory serves me correctly.... MT has and does host hunts for special interest populations including veterans and youth.

-Jake

mthusker

So many folks are really ignorant of the challenges that most ranchers face in their every day way of life. So many people see shows like "Yellowstone" on tv and think all ranchers are made of money. Truth be told, many I know here in Montana are 4th, 5th or more generation ranchers who struggle to maintain the family ranch. You have a monopoly of beef packers who control the market, you have foreign cattle shipped into the U.S., with no country of origin labeling, you have property taxes, blizzards, droughts, floods, grass fires, ect....it is not an easy way of life. I have no trouble leasing hunting rights for myself and freinds and family. It is something I choose to do, and luckily, am able to do. Why someone feels the need to change the subject of my thread is beyond me, if that person is so concerned about whether or not to lease land for hunting, start your own thread. Thanks.

mrbb

quite honestly , since most all lands in most states are private over public
to say, its NOT fair for land owners to get any deer permits from the sate is rather silly
all the more so, when folks that say live in TEXAS< where there is almost ZERO public land to hunt freely!
what would all the private land owners do then, if they couldn;'t control things on THERE LANDS!
and don't forget, that MOST all private lands are NOT high fenced in in MOST states(tx might be one of the few that have so many that are)

so no fence, the game can legally leave one person's property and walk onto state and federal lands OPEN to the public
the problem
tends to be, that many state and public lands SUCK< they have poor habitat/foods, and are many times way over pressured!
thus pushing game OFF the state PUBLIC lands into PRIVATE lands, and then ding crop damage or STAYING on the private lands which are then, causing land owners more problems
so your back to trying to force someone that PAID for something to open it up to the public, and that is 100% wrong!
its not written any where that everyone should have access to PRIME lands or private lands, and it is just life,
not everyone gets a cookie some times!
and don;'t forget that if farmers and such DIDN'T farm and grow the foods they have, odds are there wouldn;t be the game there IS on lands bordering them as I am sure many animals venture onto private lands to EAT, HIDE from hunters and , costs land owners $$ while there there
if you want land owners to NOT get permits and such, , you better GET all the game OFF there lands and fence things OFF from game entering them then, other wise, land owners have every right hunt and manage THERE lands with help from the state! and profit from there lands if it happens!

In life, those with means, tend to get ahead of those without, its the nature of the beast !
that doesn't mean those with means shouldn't;t also have the same rights as others that don't,!

as said many times on many forums
if you DON"T own land, you have 3 options, BUY your own, (rent lease)
or hunt public land,s
OR become friends with those that DO own lands!

I know over my life time I developed lots of friendships in many states that have me access to private lands for FREE(well minus again I never show up empty handed, , they never ask, I just feel its teh right thing to do, to so appreciation for what they give me)

anyone that doesn't like the above three , well sorry that's LIFE!

mrbb

also food dor thought here
many farmers like ranchers can very easy be land RICH and money poor, barely paying the bills to keep the lands they have!

most folks DON"T get this either
they see big spreads and think owners must have money to burn
and its not true more times than it is from my experience working on and helping on farms over my life time!
about only time many farmers ranchers have any cash , is IF they sell the property and many still be broke as they owe more than its worth in a sale!

flags

I'm not. I grew up in a family of ranchers. My grandfather was born in a sod house on a homestead in Eastern CO. I have a relative that runs a 10,000 acre spread in CO. But I stand by my earlier statement of not being a fan of the leasing craze. When only the wealthy can hunt we will lose our right to hunt because the average Joe Hunting Public will no longer care about keeping hunting around if they can't find a place to hunt. I fear that day isn't too far in the future.

Champlain Islander

It is all a big money game now from the increasing price of big game tags to the PP system which adds to the costs and is poorly managed and that is just the government/ state side of the issue. Anyplace where head bone grows large has gotten more and more into leasing. There are still farms around here that allow hunting for free but anytime one of them starts to lease it spreads like a cancer in that area. I can't blame the farmers who are just trying to hold on to their land but it certainly eliminates the possibility of hunts for many people without large financial resources.

mrbb

again, look at Texas
almost ALL lands there are already private and about the only hunting going on is, on private land,s in which most folks PAY to access to hunt, and been this way for d decades!
if any state should be complaining about what land owners do, it should be there, as what is the game dept doing for the public??
very little, as there isn;'t much lands for the public to hunt!
free access is MAYBE only offered to close friends or family members!
other wise the rest pretty much pay
and pending where your hunting, prices can be insanely HIGH to kill a deer!

all them land owners in TX would be up a creek without a paddle if the state stepped in and didn;t let them have tags or sell hunt, lease lands, unless they opened them up to the public!

and like it or not, all things in life keep costing more and more
I have said this many times, I feel very bad for the average kid today, as everything costs so much $$ to get into, and there are so few places left to just roam freely!
I am not a big fan of leases , but I understand them and again at times sort of used things to my advantage, like renting land for my week or two hunt in states far away, this saves me aggravation on worries about hunters showing up walking in on me, or being on heavy pressured lands while I am there!
and having a house.cabin on lands, saves me a lot of time and added driving, as driving a 1000-2000 miles to get some place, is long enough, and I don;t have endless time to be out there, to find better places where less folks go, or just the fact I am getting older and cannot wander as far as I like and Carry game out like I used to

so,
I gather like many in things, as we get older have more means, we PAY for more things to make our lives easier, i
think about it, as we got older, we bought better higher costing guns, ammo, gear, vehicles, homes, and about everything!
its life!
and this is including hunts, to many many more!

Now, I no longer care about a kill, but I still want to enjoy my hunt, and not many things ruin my hunts anymore, than when I go in early, set up and then first hour of day light some jerk shows up, wandering about chasing everything out of the area, and worse many times wants to hang out near me>

so, I will gladly pay some extra $$to try to avoid this on hunts anymore! and this many times means paying for lands!
worth the added costs to have more peaceful and enjoyable hunts IMO!

with human population growing higher and higher, less lands to hunt, this is the future of hunting sadly, untill there is a way to start making more land !

mthusker

I have no problem with your opinion, but it is just that, yours. Since you have such conviction on the topic, you have never paid to hunt, correct?