just a question to ponder if your life is at risk
04-02-2020, 12:57 PM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: texas
Posts: 1,201
just a question to ponder if your life is at risk
I was recently asked by a fairly knowledgeable friend about my potential choice or selection
if I had to select a decent back-up rifle, AND CALIBER,
now understand
I WAS NOT GOING TO BE HUNTING,
ID JUST BE STANDING SLIGHTLY BEHIND HIM ACTING AS INSURANCE,
IF HE BIT OFF MORE THAN HE COULD HANDLE
he just got through reading several books like
if I was to hunt something rather dangerous,
THAT COULD IF PROVOKED, STOMP OR MAUL YOU VERY EFFECTIVELY AND LETHALLY.
I THINK ID GO THE CZ 458 LOTT ROUTE, WITH A SLOW EXPANDING BULLET IN THE 550 GRAIN RANGE
WITH A LARGER RECEIVER REAR SIGHT
IF YOUR ONLY GOING TO GET ONE SHOT IN A TIGHT SPOT AT POINT BLANK RANGES,
YOU MIGHT AS WELL SELECT SOMETHING THAT WILL
HIT HARD AND PENETRATE WELL
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE
AND YEAH I OWN ONE AND I'M WELL AWARE OF THE RECOIL
BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN SENSE OF SECURITY, IN LETTING SOMETHING GET IN CLOSE BEFORE YOU FIRE...
IF you're FACING SOMETHING NASTY OVER THOSE SIGHTS
I think he was thinking or daydreaming about cape buffalo or Kodiak bear ,or polar bear,
as hunting tiger or elephant is very unlikely
if I had to select a decent back-up rifle, AND CALIBER,
now understand
I WAS NOT GOING TO BE HUNTING,
ID JUST BE STANDING SLIGHTLY BEHIND HIM ACTING AS INSURANCE,
IF HE BIT OFF MORE THAN HE COULD HANDLE
he just got through reading several books like
if I was to hunt something rather dangerous,
THAT COULD IF PROVOKED, STOMP OR MAUL YOU VERY EFFECTIVELY AND LETHALLY.
I THINK ID GO THE CZ 458 LOTT ROUTE, WITH A SLOW EXPANDING BULLET IN THE 550 GRAIN RANGE
WITH A LARGER RECEIVER REAR SIGHT
IF YOUR ONLY GOING TO GET ONE SHOT IN A TIGHT SPOT AT POINT BLANK RANGES,
YOU MIGHT AS WELL SELECT SOMETHING THAT WILL
HIT HARD AND PENETRATE WELL
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE
AND YEAH I OWN ONE AND I'M WELL AWARE OF THE RECOIL
BUT THERE'S A CERTAIN SENSE OF SECURITY, IN LETTING SOMETHING GET IN CLOSE BEFORE YOU FIRE...
IF you're FACING SOMETHING NASTY OVER THOSE SIGHTS
I think he was thinking or daydreaming about cape buffalo or Kodiak bear ,or polar bear,
as hunting tiger or elephant is very unlikely
Last edited by hardcastonly; 04-02-2020 at 05:25 PM.
04-02-2020, 01:25 PM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 9,230
Give me a good double in either 470 Nitro or 500 Nitro if cost was no object. Once you handle a big double and learn how to really use it you will understand why so PHs use them despite the cost. That immediate 2nd shot is handy and when you learn how to do a proper reload you can get 4 shots off quicker with a double than a bolt gun. I had a Williams Evans double in 450/400 3 1/4 Nitro Express and I practiced until I could shoot it like a machine. However in a fit of extreme stupidity I sold that rifle. Sure wish I had it back.
04-02-2020, 01:36 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,780
If it was for only heavy dangerous game such as elephant, cape buffalo, or hippo I would use a 458 caliber rifle, if it was for cats it would be 375 caliber rifle. Many like the 416's as an all-around DG rifle and I would not disagree with that choice.
I think the CZ is a good choice if you have a little work done to them by a specialist (trigger, safety, perhaps feeding if needed). They are solidly built, reliable, and there are many guys that like them for the largest cartridges. However, I understand they are discontinuing production. Another good choice would be the M70 Safari Express, which is solidly built, reliable, and needs no work.
I shoot the 375's well and the recoil does not keep me off target long. The 458 Win and the 458 Lott are harder to get that second shot off accurately but definitely punch harder. I have used a Lott for game even as light as eland, but I think the 458 Winchester does the same job with a little less fuss and the 416's work just as well. Frankly shooting much from 458 or 470 rifles literally gives me a headache.
I think the CZ is a good choice if you have a little work done to them by a specialist (trigger, safety, perhaps feeding if needed). They are solidly built, reliable, and there are many guys that like them for the largest cartridges. However, I understand they are discontinuing production. Another good choice would be the M70 Safari Express, which is solidly built, reliable, and needs no work.
I shoot the 375's well and the recoil does not keep me off target long. The 458 Win and the 458 Lott are harder to get that second shot off accurately but definitely punch harder. I have used a Lott for game even as light as eland, but I think the 458 Winchester does the same job with a little less fuss and the 416's work just as well. Frankly shooting much from 458 or 470 rifles literally gives me a headache.
04-02-2020, 02:04 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,743
I sold several of the CZ's in the 458 lott caliber as did a few of my buddy's with gun shops.
and been our experience, on models made before say 2008 or so, that a LOT of the stock would creak break, I believe they change stock design or support like of it, to stop the cracking from happening, but a heads up to anyone that finds older used one!
and NO CZ doesbn't stand by them and replace them free of charge its all out of pocket costs when they break!
other wise very solid guns!
as for what gun/caliber to be having for back up
well since I have ZERO desire to shoot or kill anything on any safari , I doubt I would ever need to find out
but IF I did go, it would be rather simple, it would;be the largest caliber rifle I could shoot fast and accurately!
as don't care how large a caliber is, if you DON"T get it up and ready and HIT what you need to, its not going to do you any good!
It would also again, be a caliber I could afford to shot often and practice a lot with before hand, as again, having a BIG exotic caliber rifle you cannot afford to practice with, tends to mean one you shoot poorly!
and been our experience, on models made before say 2008 or so, that a LOT of the stock would creak break, I believe they change stock design or support like of it, to stop the cracking from happening, but a heads up to anyone that finds older used one!
and NO CZ doesbn't stand by them and replace them free of charge its all out of pocket costs when they break!
other wise very solid guns!
as for what gun/caliber to be having for back up
well since I have ZERO desire to shoot or kill anything on any safari , I doubt I would ever need to find out
but IF I did go, it would be rather simple, it would;be the largest caliber rifle I could shoot fast and accurately!
as don't care how large a caliber is, if you DON"T get it up and ready and HIT what you need to, its not going to do you any good!
It would also again, be a caliber I could afford to shot often and practice a lot with before hand, as again, having a BIG exotic caliber rifle you cannot afford to practice with, tends to mean one you shoot poorly!
Last edited by mrbb; 04-02-2020 at 02:09 PM.
04-03-2020, 10:56 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,846
Benelli M1 super 90 18" barrel 12 gauge semi auto with Brenneke 12 gauge 2 3/4" 1 3/8oz (602 grain) maximum barrier penetration hardened slugs. (1650fps/3550fpe at the muzzle).
In tests done by Brenneke, at 7yds, these rounds will defeat level IIIA body armor and still go on to penetrate in excess of 30" of ballsitics gelatin
I have several boxes of these on hand in case of Alien T-Rex invasion.
EDITED to add additional ballistic data.
In tests done by Brenneke, at 7yds, these rounds will defeat level IIIA body armor and still go on to penetrate in excess of 30" of ballsitics gelatin
I have several boxes of these on hand in case of Alien T-Rex invasion.
EDITED to add additional ballistic data.
Last edited by Valorius; 04-04-2020 at 01:35 PM.
04-05-2020, 06:43 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444
Benelli M1 super 90 18" barrel 12 gauge semi auto with Brenneke 12 gauge 2 3/4" 1 3/8oz (602 grain) maximum barrier penetration hardened slugs. (1650fps/3550fpe at the muzzle).
In tests done by Brenneke, at 7yds, these rounds will defeat level IIIA body armor and still go on to penetrate in excess of 30" of ballsitics gelatin
I have several boxes of these on hand in case of Alien T-Rex invasion.
EDITED to add additional ballistic data.
In tests done by Brenneke, at 7yds, these rounds will defeat level IIIA body armor and still go on to penetrate in excess of 30" of ballsitics gelatin
I have several boxes of these on hand in case of Alien T-Rex invasion.
EDITED to add additional ballistic data.
Would be a good choice IF were able to bring it to an African country.
04-05-2020, 06:57 AM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: US South
Posts: 444
I was recently asked by a fairly knowledgeable friend about my potential choice or selection
if I had to select a decent back-up rifle, AND CALIBER,
now understand
I WAS NOT GOING TO BE HUNTING,
ID JUST BE STANDING SLIGHTLY BEHIND HIM ACTING AS INSURANCE,
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE?
if I had to select a decent back-up rifle, AND CALIBER,
now understand
I WAS NOT GOING TO BE HUNTING,
ID JUST BE STANDING SLIGHTLY BEHIND HIM ACTING AS INSURANCE,
WHAT WOULD BE YOUR CHOICE?
04-05-2020, 08:44 AM
#10
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,846
Where law prohibits a semi auto, I would swap out the Benelli with an 18" side by side loaded with the same Brenneke slugs (I think there are places where a shotgun of any kind is not legal, for...reasons).
If I was into that sort of thing.
Last edited by Valorius; 04-05-2020 at 08:46 AM.
