Momo we're all proud of you but if you didn't use a shotgun on them, well I hate to say it but a certain person will not think highly of you. What you need to do is embellish the story a little bit so that you can hang with the big boys. First we'll change your age to 21, The bear was 2 feet away, the rabbit had rabies, you had a case of the mumps with chicken pox thrown in, and the single shot Iver Johnson shotgun hadn't been cleaned for awhile. Just a thought, I do admire your spelling for a 12 year old, took me till 40 to spell that good.

Hunt smart, hunt safe

Hi Momo:
Tell us about the bear! What kind of gun did you use on it? How far away were you? Give us all the details so that we can enjoy the experience with you .

P.S. If it's easier for you, you can first type it into your word processor, then cut and paste it to the BBS.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;P.S. If it's easier for you, you can first type it into your word processor, then cut and paste it to the BBS.&quot;

That's the way I do it



From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

I'M NOT SUPRISED THAT THIS THREAD IS STILL GOING ON. BLAIN WHEN ARE YOU PLANNING ON GOING ON THIS HUNT??? I WOULD LOVE TO SEE PICS OF IT. AND TUSSEY MOUNTIAN MAN HUNTER GOOD LUCK ON YOUR HUNT!!!

I don't have any experience with Grizzly bears - I have do have a bit with shotguns but not on large game animals. I do however have a love of hunting, and I know a little bit about a lot of things, and I am quite good at researching things as well.

This topic - of Blain killing a grizzly with buckshot - has gotten my attention. I did a few searches and here's some quotes I have found on Grizzly bears and buckshot ..

http://www.geocities.com/cosociety/tales.html

This article is about a couple of guys hunting down a man killer grizzly - one guy had a shotgun loaded with buckshot and slugs.

&quot; The bear was on my side of the copter, and I quickly emptied both barrels of the Browning into him. When we autopsied him later we learned that although my buckshot had not hit a vital organ, some of them had penetrated the body cavity to the stomach and would have killed the bear eventually. Yet he didn't react in any way to those two shots.

The grizzly walked out of sight into thick spruce again, but Bergh was directly over him now, just above the trees, and in a minute the bear came into the open once more, on Harper's side 60 feet below us.

Fred's 300-grain soft-point from the .375 Magnum smashed into the grizzly's right shoulder and blew up in the lungs and heart. He fell, pushed himself ahead a few feet to the edge of a thicket, and was dead in seconds&quot;

http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Wild/Bear.html

qusetion and answer from a guy going into grizzly country and wanting to know how to protect himself. He says ...

[i]&quot; I go on a 2 week wilderness canoe trip in Alaska, and plan to carry a 12 ga. shotgun to protect me against bears. Hopefully, I won't have to use it. My question is: Should I use slug or shot? Is there any merit to increase the chance to hit a vital organ using shot versus the lack of penetration?

Also, is there much difference between standard 2.75&quot; catridges and the 3&quot;?

My shotgun is a 5 shot Mossberg 500 with the short 18.5&quot; (smoothbore) barrel. I thought to use the pistol grip instead of the regular buttstock, to save weight and space. But I wonder, how accurately it may be aimed as such, although I figure it would probably be used in an emergency at close range. The weapon with the pistol grip is amazing light and compact, but I wonder, how effective it would be, if put to the test. Any thoughts or suggestions? [i]&quot;

and is answered by ...

&quot; Use definitely slugs. Don't consider shot. I have read too many reports of bear encounters where Buckshot was used and resulted in little or no penetration. Sure, it messed up the skin a bit, but didn't do anything more than piss off an already dangerous animal. Slugs. Slugs. And more Slugs. In a defensive situation, the bear will be running AT you head on. Shot would have to make it through all that bone and grissle and meat to hit the vitals. Will it be up to the job? Remember, the excercise here is to kill the bear, not wound him. There are a lot of different slugs out threre, and I suspect each will perform well. I myself stuff the (subcaliber) Remington copper sabot slugs down the pipe, when I can. The big lead ones would work just as well I suppose, but I feel better with the copper sabots.

2 3/4&quot; slugs are the way to go. Dont mess with 3&quot; magnums. Why? If you are using the shotgun in a defense mode, as you indicate, you are NOT going to open fire until that beast is at the 25 yard line. At that range, the difference between the 2 3/4&quot; and 3&quot; is not enough to make the bear feel any better. As well, The last thing you want to happen is have that muzzle lifting and jerking due to the recoil of the 3&quot;. With a little luck, you can place 3 solid shots into that charging bear, you dont want to loose sight picture for even an instant. As an added bonus, try stuffing as many 3&quot; into the magazine as is viable. How many fit. Now do the same exercise using 2 3/4&quot; shells. Notice the difference? &quot;

another answers -

&quot; Buckshot and birdshot will not likely, sufficiently penetrate a bear to do over the short run more, than to make him very angry. It's no use to you if he dies of infection several days later. I'd not use the pistol grip. You'll want accurate placement in the neck/shoulder area, to try, to stop a bear at close range. &quot;

http://www.wildalaskatrophyoutfitter...laska_info.htm

&quot; 8. DON'T use buckshot for bear protection. USE slugs in the shotgun. Buckshot won't penetrate, slugs will. &quot;

http://www.albertareport.com/25arcop...y/2544ar01.htm

Here we have a guy who fires 2 rounds of slugs and 2 rounds of buckshot into a grizzly - and though it stopped it, it did not kill it.

&quot;As the bear started its final charge, Mr. Deline unslung his 12-gauge Mossberg Slugster shotgun from his back and fired. Four rounds—two buckshot and two slugs—knocked the bear over twice and convinced it to flee into the woods. When the men flew back to the scene a few hours later, a co-worker photographed Mr. Deline with the bear, which they found lying flat on its back under a tree. &quot;Personally, I wouldn't have had a chance without a gun,&quot; says Mr. Deline. &quot;The way he was coming, he would have bowled us right over. He wasn't stopping for anything.&quot;

I suppose I could pull up a few more reports as well, but the point I am making is this - I have yet to find an internet search on a shotgun killed grizzly that used buckshot only. ( Blain - I'd like to see a link to that outfitter you are talking about.)
Could it be done ? I suppose it could, but then I could probably kill a grizzly wi a 22 mag if everything happened just right too. I don't think anyone, anywhere would reccommend using a shotgun loaded with buckshot to hunt grizzly with. I aint no expert, but I do know that when 100% of the searches I did come up with no one reccommending or using shotguns with buckshot as a hunting weapon OR sole defense for grizzly, i'd say thats proof enough.

JMHO

JMHO:
You hit it on the nail when you said, that it may be able to be done if every thing goes down just right.

This is the problem with griz. Theoretically a guy can go into griz country and have success with killing one, with just about anything. But when all is said and done, it boils down to odds.

What are the odds of your particular round working consistently, time after time.

When we are talking about saving human lives, we do not play the odds. We use what will work.

I'm no fan of the feds or the park system, but take a look at what they're packing at places like Katmai National Park, and Denali National Park. They use 12 gauge shotguns with 3&quot; Rottweill slugs.

This is because, unlike buck shot, that may or may not work, depending on too many variables, these slugs are proven to work consistently, time after time.

The one man's point about using 2 3/4&quot; vs 3&quot; was a good point. What I think he's trying to say, is know your capabilities.

If you cannot control a 3&quot; mag consistently, then you would be better off with 2 3/4&quot;. I have practiced a lot with my Beneli M3 Super 90, and 3&quot; mag slugs, so I am very confident in their and my capabilities.

One of the problems with Grizzlies, is that when they get really pissed off, they do not want to stop. I've seen them take tremendous damage and keep on coming.

For example, three years ago, on a little trickle of a stream, between two lakes, in the Point MacKenzie area, while standing on a beaver dam, a griz attacked in earnest. It was shot twice with a .460. The first bullet entered through the brisket, and passed completely through the bear, the second followed a similar trajectory, but pulverized the heart. The bear still ran the final ten yards before finally falling, still twitching, with it's front paws on the beaver dam!

In another instance, on Kodiak Island, a bear was charging from 50 yards away. To rifles were shot at it, and it still kept coming. The first, a .338, entered the brisket, and passed through all the internal organs, to lodge in the pelvic, after breaking it. The second, a .375 H&H, blew the lower half of the bear's face off.

Before two more shots could be placed, the bear was almost on them. A second volley finally stopped the bear with in ten feet of where the shots were fired. The .338 hit the spine, and the .375 again entered the brisket, and blew out the right shoulder.

The point of all this mumbo jumbo, is that griz can be easy to kill, or they can be very difficult to kill. That is why those that have spent a good amount of time with them, do not take chances with nonsense like buckshot.

Beware the fool who puts his or others lives at risk for the sake of a pet theory...nothing is more dangerous in Grizzly country, than ignorance.

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>

you only have to be able to out run Blain<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
the Griz will take care of the rest

Mike

Look, I already said I was going to prove it through experiance. If I succeed you should all admit I'm right and it will be known that it can be done. If I am wrong well then I am ust some ignorant fool. Real life will tell, so just hold off till then.

From Squirrel to Elephant, the Shotgun is your gun.

Remember Blain, I get the first copy of your tape! What are you going to name your video?
Here is a good one....Faces of Death 5!<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Blain:
You don't need to prove anything...I can already assure you that it &quot;can&quot; be done. Given the right circumstances, i could kill a bear with a spear...heck, o'l Mo killed one with a pocket knife.

But this does NOT make it practical. In a self defense situation, one must use the most lethal, proven, and consistent force available, or one will risk injury or death.

You can kill a large bear with a bow and arrow, thus proving that it can be done, but would it be wise to use it for self defense, when lives are at stake?

<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle> If You Ain't Hunted Alaska, You're Still Just Practicing <img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>