Fair Chase vs High Fence Hunting Debate?
12-27-2012, 06:53 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
WARNING: Any person who employees any one of a multitude of monitoring techniques including, but not limited to, trail cameras, satellite imagery, guides, neighbors, friends, or other hunter(s) is now classified as a "Buyer". As such, that person is no longer considered a "Hunter" in the "Tiny Thinker's" code of conduct.
Seriously?
Have we become so naive?
Because I realize not every person can be the starting quarterback, despite the various speculative "health" attributes being designated by those unqualified to make such designations, I am impressed with anyone who gets off the friggin couch and does something legally in the outdoors-be it fishing, hiking, hunting, spending money or whatever! I will congratulate them when they successfully achieve their endeavor, period! It's sort of a live and let live attitude I've acquired over the years, and after seeing a mess of the world. I hope I live long enough to see more...
Seriously?
Have we become so naive?
Because I realize not every person can be the starting quarterback, despite the various speculative "health" attributes being designated by those unqualified to make such designations, I am impressed with anyone who gets off the friggin couch and does something legally in the outdoors-be it fishing, hiking, hunting, spending money or whatever! I will congratulate them when they successfully achieve their endeavor, period! It's sort of a live and let live attitude I've acquired over the years, and after seeing a mess of the world. I hope I live long enough to see more...
Last edited by iamyourhuckleberry; 12-27-2012 at 06:56 AM.
12-28-2012, 02:30 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
Losthwy,
In 2006, I was asked by our DOW to help participate in the removal of six bull elk from a high fence operation near Grand Mesa, Colorado. I agreed to lend assistance. Six seasoned elk hunters hunted for four days covering every square inch of a 1200 acre ranch. Not one mature bull was sighted throughout the course of the hunt, but we knew they were there-even tried baiting them with alfalfa. What we didn't know, 12 cows, calves and spike bulls had somehow managed to gain entry onto the property. They were spot on the very first day (I personally saw six spikes) and never seen again. We were all confused since only the branched antler bulls should have been present. It turned out, we were told every elk on that piece of ground had to be killed before the new land owner, a resdential developer, could remove the high fence in order to build homes. Long story short, after four days of hunting we succeeded in only killing a bison. A helicopter was brought in and elk were killed from the air-a total of eight. Do the math. Six were supposed to be on the property, and 12 additional elk were sighted. That's a total of 18 and yet only 8 were killed. Where did the rest go and why weren't six seasoned hunters able to kill any?
My point is this, there are no absolutes when animals have enough room and cover to escape and evade. Are we so naif that we fail to accept the notion, animals go over, under, through and around fences? What makes a large acre ranch any different than say Long Island, Afognak Island, Prince of Wales Island, etc where human encroachment has dramatically decreased the amount of available wildlife habitat? Heck, I have seen 12 acre wooded pinch points through residential neighborhoods more of a guarantee than some of the 100,000 acres consessions I've hunted in Africa. The former hasn't a fence while the the latter has, and yet the former is more of a guarantee. I am a hunter if I succeed on the 12 acres and I am not for doing the same on the 100,000 acres...crazy!
So here's my offer for anyone willing to accept this wager. I will pay for a branch antlered axis deer you kill on a high fence ranch of my choosing (not to exceed 1200 acres). You will have three days to still hunt/spot and stalk (no stands, blinds, and no bait) this beast via bow and arrow. I will even pay your room and board if you're successful. If you fail, you will have to cover my airfare from Colorado to Texas. This bet essentially has a 10 to 1 payoff for those willing to put their money ahead of their mouth. I will even guarantee at least five axis deer on the property. Send me a PM if you're willing to play...cow indeed.
In 2006, I was asked by our DOW to help participate in the removal of six bull elk from a high fence operation near Grand Mesa, Colorado. I agreed to lend assistance. Six seasoned elk hunters hunted for four days covering every square inch of a 1200 acre ranch. Not one mature bull was sighted throughout the course of the hunt, but we knew they were there-even tried baiting them with alfalfa. What we didn't know, 12 cows, calves and spike bulls had somehow managed to gain entry onto the property. They were spot on the very first day (I personally saw six spikes) and never seen again. We were all confused since only the branched antler bulls should have been present. It turned out, we were told every elk on that piece of ground had to be killed before the new land owner, a resdential developer, could remove the high fence in order to build homes. Long story short, after four days of hunting we succeeded in only killing a bison. A helicopter was brought in and elk were killed from the air-a total of eight. Do the math. Six were supposed to be on the property, and 12 additional elk were sighted. That's a total of 18 and yet only 8 were killed. Where did the rest go and why weren't six seasoned hunters able to kill any?
My point is this, there are no absolutes when animals have enough room and cover to escape and evade. Are we so naif that we fail to accept the notion, animals go over, under, through and around fences? What makes a large acre ranch any different than say Long Island, Afognak Island, Prince of Wales Island, etc where human encroachment has dramatically decreased the amount of available wildlife habitat? Heck, I have seen 12 acre wooded pinch points through residential neighborhoods more of a guarantee than some of the 100,000 acres consessions I've hunted in Africa. The former hasn't a fence while the the latter has, and yet the former is more of a guarantee. I am a hunter if I succeed on the 12 acres and I am not for doing the same on the 100,000 acres...crazy!
So here's my offer for anyone willing to accept this wager. I will pay for a branch antlered axis deer you kill on a high fence ranch of my choosing (not to exceed 1200 acres). You will have three days to still hunt/spot and stalk (no stands, blinds, and no bait) this beast via bow and arrow. I will even pay your room and board if you're successful. If you fail, you will have to cover my airfare from Colorado to Texas. This bet essentially has a 10 to 1 payoff for those willing to put their money ahead of their mouth. I will even guarantee at least five axis deer on the property. Send me a PM if you're willing to play...cow indeed.
Last edited by iamyourhuckleberry; 12-28-2012 at 02:35 AM.
12-28-2012, 06:30 AM
#35
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 595
Well here is what side of the fence I am on with this subject. So why does anyone care how other people hunt or what means some take to kill an animal as long as its legal. Some might just have more money than time but they are expected to do it the barta way too. Or it really doesn't count, right?
Is there a difference between a 400" bull shot on public land vs high fence, sure. but who cares, people will never be forced to hunt a high fence ranch.
I have a problem with groups that push deer day in day out, and when they roll up with that great 10pt I have to say, i am not all that impressed with it. But it is what it is, its was taken legally and we just move on.
So, don't get so wrapped up with what someone else got or how they got it and how much they spent.
Is there a difference between a 400" bull shot on public land vs high fence, sure. but who cares, people will never be forced to hunt a high fence ranch.
I have a problem with groups that push deer day in day out, and when they roll up with that great 10pt I have to say, i am not all that impressed with it. But it is what it is, its was taken legally and we just move on.
So, don't get so wrapped up with what someone else got or how they got it and how much they spent.
12-28-2012, 06:49 AM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Here's a perspective completely opposite to the previous post. Have you ever heard of the antis who want to abolish ALL hunting? The first place they go to in order to perpetuate their reasoning is the small game farms where the animals have no place to hide or escape and that's what they show as normal hunting by all of us. We hunters know that isn't the truth, but millions of people, especially those in the big cities that don't hunt and that can vote hunting out of existence if it comes to a vote don't know that. All of these captive game farms that buy and/or raise game within small enclosures that guarantee you an animal for the money you pay them should never have been allowed to exist IMHO! Please don't tell me they serve a nitch for the disabled either because there are plenty of people and programs available to take the handicapped on "REAL" hunts if they ask.
12-28-2012, 06:53 AM
#38
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Colorado
Posts: 9,557
Here's a perspective completely opposite to the previous post. Have you ever heard of the antis who want to abolish ALL hunting? The first place they go to in order to perpetuate their reasoning is the small game farms where the animals have no place to hide or escape and that's what they show as normal hunting by all of us. We hunters know that isn't the truth, but millions of people, especially those in the big cities that don't hunt and that can vote hunting out of existence if it comes to a vote don't know that. All of these captive game farms that buy and/or raise game within small enclosures that guarantee you an animal for the money you pay them should never have been allowed to exist IMHO! Please don't tell me they serve a nitch for the disabled either because there are plenty of people and programs available to take the handicapped on "REAL" hunts if they ask.
12-28-2012, 10:21 AM
#39
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 595
Topgun thats is funny. I will bet you this for every 1 bad story given by the antis for game farming I can give you 5 bad stories at least of slob hunters doing it the "right" way.
muley hunter, the tv shows are harmless. you dont know if they are done behind a fence or not unless that is told to you on the show. Its tv for crying out loud. Do you think people would tune in to 20 minutes of nothing and then they shoot a little 5pt? probably not. Thats why I dont video lol.
muley hunter, the tv shows are harmless. you dont know if they are done behind a fence or not unless that is told to you on the show. Its tv for crying out loud. Do you think people would tune in to 20 minutes of nothing and then they shoot a little 5pt? probably not. Thats why I dont video lol.
12-28-2012, 10:34 AM
#40
Spike
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Rochester, New York
Posts: 55
hunters. Peta people and Antis have a united front. Iamyourhucleberry
provided excellent data showing why we hunters should have the same united front but it seems he is being attacked for saying lets stick together. I think it is utter nonsense to say tv hunting shows provide ammo for anti hunters. I am sure they are far too busy watching whale wars or animal planet to bother watching relentless pursuit or live to hunt. I hate to say it but I think people who want to knock high fence or easy hunts really just want to pump themselves up to say that they are a better hunter than the person who hires a guide or goes to a "high fence". Anti hunters will say that "anyone" who pursues game is a hunter and are against their way of life. It is too bad we hunters won't band together to protect our common interests. For all we know it could be an anti hunter who started this thread just to sit back and laugh as we squabble amongst ourselves and try to deny other hunters the freedom to choose where and how they want to hunt.