BareBack Jack

Coastie I have to agree with you on 300+ shots at elk.There sure is alot of talk of folks doing it.
The ' 06 has more FPS+BC =Penetration.But still to take a 300+ shot is a low % shot and almost beyond the capabilites of the round and beyond most shooters if they admit it or not.
I have once shot at a elk more the 300 yards,all the elk I have killed is under 200.I belive in my ability to sneak,crawl and stalk an animal to were the % of a miss is almost zero,have I missed of corse.But it is not because I failed to get close enough but more shooters error.
I belive in fast high power rifles with lots of punch not cause of added range but for complete pass through and as much damage to the power house as possible.
When I shoot a elk,deer or what ever game animal I know I did every thing in my power to prepare,condition and season myself for the opputunity.
Yes there are gadgets and Do hickys that are all nice and shiney and make a hunter think he/or she can not fail.But what good is a Range finder if you can find the game,what good is GPS if you don' t get out of the truck.
This all gose back to our up brining into the hunting world.
Like my father told me never hold above hair and wait till you can see their breath.
And to me that means get close and make good.

rather_be_huntin

I like your question Coastie, now we get do a little thinking.

In your example of the 30-06 I don' t know what table you pulled from but I' d use a 180gr partition on elk in the 30-06 which delivers about 1830 ft-lbs at 300yds (Which is the same as the 30-30 AT THE MUZZLE!!!) so I' d limit shots to about 325yds with that load. That translates to a 25 yd range for the 30-30.

Just because you pick an adequate rifle doesn' t mean you can throw any old bullet in it for elk. You have to pick a quality bullet and a quality load. The rifle is only 1/3 of the equation. You MUST know your shooting capabilities matched with the capabilities of the rifle and load.

Using the 30-06 example assuming I used the exact same load and rifle for deer my range would be 325yds for elk even though I could shoot consistently at about 500 yds. For deer the rifle could cleanly take a deer out past 600 yds. That is of course if I could be accurate at that range which I couldn' t so I' d limit to my accurate range. So for deer my ability determines range, for elk the load determines range.

To answer your question I shoot a 7mm Rem mag with 160 gr partitions and I limit my shots to no more than 400 yds, 425 in a pinch (I get about 1800 ft-lbs at 400yds.). Although I try to get closer than that, I' ve only taken that shot once with good results. All other elk have been under 300 yds. I used to use an 06 but I realized I could get a little more range with my 7mm and the kick is about the same.

ELKampMaster

Coastie,

I apologize for not responding to your post before your last one. Got busy and didn' t round up the time to respond -- would have said you are pretty articulate, level headed, and given your hunting local, and related game and experience, and family responsibilities that you are a stand up guy. I didn' t, the thread moved on, I responded or jumped in on the tail of ratherbehunting' s post and it appears it came off personal.

With that said, I' ll stand by that, " what works for deer don' t necessarily work well for elk" and the choice of a " generically enough" cartridge is relevant. And by " generically enough" I mean a cartridge that will work for the experienced and the non-experienced, will work near and will work " far" , will work with the perfect bench rest sniper/heart/lung short and will work with the bust' em right through the shoulder shot, something that can kill them " clean" and kill them " dirty" through obstacles (hide, ribs, shoulders, and imperfect angles). That kind of flexibility requires leaning to the " strong side" where PENETRATION is available.

Now for your questions:
-- " Just what rifle and round do you each individually use??"
I like the 338 Win Mag, for elk, I have used a 375 HH since my two boys now use my 2 338WinMags (they moved up from a 270 and a 30-06 and weight 165 lbs).

-- " What is your average shot distance?"
About 100 yards.

-- " What is the longest shot you would normally attempt?" , I like them close, under a 100 yards is wonderful and exciting; last year at 210 yards were my longest elk shots, I could get tempted up to 300 yards with a good rest and a stable target.

-- " With all of the 300 plus yard shots I keep reading about from these guys hunting Elk out there, just how much difference is there actually?"
As far as I am concerned your apparent tranlating of big calibers into long range shots is in error -- I DON' T go for that stuff; however, for my elk hunting " toolbox" I DO want all the absolute knock down power needed out to 300 yards just for flexiblity AND I want penetration for any angle come any situation. Myself and every elk hunter in my camp would rather have a close shot than a far one and that is what we build our primary hunting strategies around. I can' t speak for others you appear to be " quoting" .

-- " You don' t read about shots at 100 yds or less by these people, they are always shooting halfway across the state."
I don' t know who " they" is or " what/where" you are reading, but I would recommend a different source of journalism.

-- " A bad hit with a cannon wounds just as bad at those distances as poorly placed shots at closer ranges with lighter rifles."
No, make no mistake, a large magnum wounds worse -- even at the same velocity the Taylor KO index is higher (heavier, wider bullet) for the magnum. Nonetheless, it is not what you want and the elk could still get away but make no mistake -- the wound is worse.

-- " So how do you judge distance and angle any differently than the rest of us neophytes?"
I am an ambush hunter myself. I check my set up with a range finder, and for the most part all my avenues of opportunity are 200 yards or less so I can shoot straight on at anything with in the " kill circle" . For those avenues that are beyond 200 yards, I range find them, translate to bullet drop and burn that one in my mind as a possible but not preferrable alternative. Besides if he is that far away then someone else in our " picket line" will likely pick him up for a closer shot. That makes it easy to pass on it and it still ends up being " meat in camp" -- it don' t really matter much who shoots it, we all share equally in our take.

-- I like " thumper" rifles AND I like to do my killing in close -- don' t always happen that way, but that' s how I like it. Some folks have a hard time putting those two elements (magnums and close) together, I don' t.

BTW, I used the football analogy because there are many, many more people in this forum who are familiar with football than are familiar with elk hunting. Rather knew exactly what I was talking about.

Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, Perform At Showtime,
EKM

rather_be_huntin

To answer your question about range. My max range is 400 yds. That doesn' t necessarly mean I shoot out that far. But I have that much range to play with. Meaning I can guess an elk is at 200 but he may really be at 275 and it really doesn' t matter to me as the shooter. The bullets only going to drop a few inches extra inches and leave me still well within the kill zone and still well within my effective range of the rifle. Thats my exact point, the margin of error with a 30-30 is next to none. The margin of error with my 7mm mag is pretty broad compared to the old 30-30.

bigbulls

The 30-30 isn' t considered an " elk round" by 95% of the hunters out there because there are much better calibers and cartriges to use for elk. No one can deny that.

But, considering that we now have " magnum" in-line muzzle loaders that will fire a 350 grain bullet at 1700+ fps and 240 grain sabots at about 1900+ fps should we not use the old side locks that fire round balls at the same or lower velocities?

Also since we have Compound bows that are capeable of shooting a 500 grain arrow at 270 fps should we not use the old long bows that shoot the same weight arrow at far less than 200 fps?

BeaverJack

Simple answer, people don' t go poppin' off at a herd 200 yards away with a bow an' arrer, or a round ball either. They unnerstand the limitations of their weapon. What yall are doin' here is confounding that unnerstanding, not clarifyin' it. 30-30 hunters will wound an' maim by misunderstanding their' s an' their rifle' s limitations. Show me a 30-30 hunter that stalks within 20 yards an' only shoots at a clear target (like a bow hunter) an' I' ll say that feller has the makins of a real hunter. Show me one who tries to use it like a 7 mag an' I' ll show you somebody raised up on innernet hunting forums instead of the real world.

ColoradoElk

Not withstanding my youth, few folks make me laugh, and BJ is one of them. Despite his refreshing interpretation of the language, no one could say it better. The folks on this board that have experience are great. I have met many of you personally, and can' t thank you enough for your help. I wonder how you all have the patience to answer the same question over and over again, FOR YEARS!!!???

bigbulls

BeaverJack, that was exactly the point that I was trying to make with my first post. It is certainly not for the majority of folks out there but in the right hunters hands it would be an effective elk cartridge.

ELKampMaster

In general, it is a mystery to me...

If I was heading down to Mississippi to hunt deer with the ole boys from the neighboring elk camp and my southern host said, " Listen, it' s a different ball game down here than out in Colorado, this is a close action game and just getting around is very difficult, you need something short and quick and it don' t take much to knock these deer over, handling is what you need, so bring your dad' s old M94 30-30 (got one) down. We leave our magnums in the closet for deer and leave your magnums at home too." I' d do it, I' ve never hunted their before, experience is always key.

If I was heading over to Africa and the PH said bring a 375HH for yourself and 458WinMag for the gunbearer to carry so you can swap out in case things get to looking a little hairy, then I' d do it, I' ve never hunted there before, experience is key. Who am I to argue with him when I am a total greenhorn to that caliber (and risk level) of hunting?

So why is it when folks in the lower 48 shift their quarry up to something bigger than deer and one recommends that they even consider shifting their firearm upwards along with their increased ambitions that they come unglued at the seams and get really defensive? What is with this emotional attachment to firearms regardless of its suitability to the task? Search the subject on this forum. Even those that have used a 30-30 on elk, very few do it any more, as even they have moved up their level of play a notch.

I hope we can just save one new elk hunter from finding out the hard way what many of us have found out first hand about an elk' s durability --- especially under less than desirable/ideal circumstances. These ain' t deer.

Never Go Undergunned, Always Check The Sight In, and Perform At Showtime,
EKM

Beans Morocco

Whew, but that caused a stir...I wasn' t asking if it was an appropriate weapon for elk; Just How many of you do, or know of anyone who uses a dub thirty on Wapiti.