Ready, Get Set, Go!
08-31-2003, 12:07 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
Ready, Get Set, Go!
Early elk season (highpower) is just 6 weeks away!
Preparations made in September have a definite impact on the success rate in October, so.... it puzzles me why there are so few threads that reflect this fact.....
I' m guessing it might have to do with something BJ once described as.... " most folks are more in love with the ' idea of hunting' rather than the actual hunting itself." Based upon what I see (and don' t see) here on the forum regarding folks getting ready and then again what I see up in the elk woods with the " comedy of errors" newbie camps that get set up in my area, I am prone to believe BJ is right. Even the Boy Scouts have got the part about " always be prepared" figured out.
My group and some of the others I know of are cranking hard NOW to get all the details nailed down for elk camp/elk hunting for 6 weeks from now. Some of our new folks have tons of questions in order to properly get ready.... I' m surprised I don' t see similar activity and related questions reflected on this forum at this critical time.
Any elk camp/elk hunt questions?
BTW, the " dumbest" ones are the best to ask! Let' s get you up there with out any wrecks.
Preparations made in September have a definite impact on the success rate in October, so.... it puzzles me why there are so few threads that reflect this fact.....
I' m guessing it might have to do with something BJ once described as.... " most folks are more in love with the ' idea of hunting' rather than the actual hunting itself." Based upon what I see (and don' t see) here on the forum regarding folks getting ready and then again what I see up in the elk woods with the " comedy of errors" newbie camps that get set up in my area, I am prone to believe BJ is right. Even the Boy Scouts have got the part about " always be prepared" figured out.
My group and some of the others I know of are cranking hard NOW to get all the details nailed down for elk camp/elk hunting for 6 weeks from now. Some of our new folks have tons of questions in order to properly get ready.... I' m surprised I don' t see similar activity and related questions reflected on this forum at this critical time.
Any elk camp/elk hunt questions?
BTW, the " dumbest" ones are the best to ask! Let' s get you up there with out any wrecks.
08-31-2003, 02:57 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,395
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
I started getting everything ready last weedend. I have everything packed up and ready to go. Everything is setting in a storage shed neatly stacked. I just need to back my truck up & load it up.
I shot my elk rifle two weeks ago and the zero is still the same as it has been for 18-years. The only thing I have left to do is wait for October-17th. That is the day I will leave home & set up camp. Opening day is October-26th in Montana.
I shot my elk rifle two weeks ago and the zero is still the same as it has been for 18-years. The only thing I have left to do is wait for October-17th. That is the day I will leave home & set up camp. Opening day is October-26th in Montana.
08-31-2003, 04:18 PM
#3
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brook, IN
Posts: 491
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
EKM,
I have a question. You set up elk camp up in the mountains, say there are only two people in camp. Opening morning you go out and shoot a nice bull say 3-4 miles from camp. How many trips are you going to make to pack the meat and antlers back to camp? How long is this going to take on average.You have no horses. Just 2 people with frame packs. The logistics seem impossible. Also how do you keep the meat from spoiling before getting off the mountain. I know these are dumb questions, but they are the biggest ones keeping me from a do it yourself elk hunt.
I have a question. You set up elk camp up in the mountains, say there are only two people in camp. Opening morning you go out and shoot a nice bull say 3-4 miles from camp. How many trips are you going to make to pack the meat and antlers back to camp? How long is this going to take on average.You have no horses. Just 2 people with frame packs. The logistics seem impossible. Also how do you keep the meat from spoiling before getting off the mountain. I know these are dumb questions, but they are the biggest ones keeping me from a do it yourself elk hunt.
08-31-2003, 04:21 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky (by God!) Mountings
Posts: 572
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
Went in las' week. Cut poles, cached gear. Goin' back in two weeks from now. We got a early season ' round here. Gonna shoe up the ponies next weekend, do my grocery shoppin' . Still got a stove jack to git put in my new tent. Need to go to the range. Maybe tommorrer.
08-31-2003, 10:02 PM
#5
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 24
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
EKM-
Started getting ready on June 1st, right after I found out that I had been successful in the Colorado draw.
Started an exercise program of walking 3 times a week (3 miles a day), and weights, abs, legs 3 days a week. Starting August 15, switched to walking 5 days a week.
Started my lists and purchases in June also.
Have been shooting since July 1st.
Have been laying out clothes and equipment since July (this one drives my wife crazy!).
Still need to purchase food, but don' t want to do that too early!
October 1st can' t get here fast enough!
Started getting ready on June 1st, right after I found out that I had been successful in the Colorado draw.
Started an exercise program of walking 3 times a week (3 miles a day), and weights, abs, legs 3 days a week. Starting August 15, switched to walking 5 days a week.
Started my lists and purchases in June also.
Have been shooting since July 1st.
Have been laying out clothes and equipment since July (this one drives my wife crazy!).
Still need to purchase food, but don' t want to do that too early!
October 1st can' t get here fast enough!
08-31-2003, 11:28 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
Neweboarhunter,
Those are NOT dumb questions unless they only concern you AFTER you have shot your elk! For many folks there is no better way to screw up a perfectly good elk hunt than for someone to actually shoot, kill, and acquire their elk -- then the problems begin -- starting with not having enough cutting, sharpening, sawing (or hatchet/axe) power. You may have heard me insist, " Elk are not deer, not even BIG deer!" and the first time you stand over one you' ve killed you' ll know just what I mean -- take lots of cutting power.
Let' s start with the critter, nice bull will have a live weight of 500 to 600 pounds (at least in my area, don' t have many monster bulls). So lets say a nice bull of 550 pounds live weight. I came across a " weight break down formula" and put it into a spreadsheet and per experience, it seems to figure out about right.
When you gut him he will lose 32.5% so now he is at 372 field dressed. Now take off the hide and the head and he loses another 63 pounds so now he is at 309 without his head and hide. Out of this 309 pounds if you debone the meat, then you should have 160 pounds of mostly packagable meat and 149 pounds of bones and unusable flesh.
So if you and your friend can carry 80 pounds (160/2) each then you can get it in one trip -- just a couple of catches. One, you are already probably carrying 25 plus pounds in your pack plus your rifle at about 10 with scope, sling, and ammo. So that makes it 25 original + 80 deboned meat + 10 rifle = 115 pounds. Two, are you going to take the head or the hide? Since it is a bull you will have to take the head and if it is your first elk then you' ll probably take the hide. So add on the 63 pounds for that and now on average you are at 147 (115 +32) pounds each if you are going to do it in one trip. LOL. Have you tested your limits regarding maximum backpack weight while you are still at home? How about maximum distance at maximum weight?
Okay, so two trips each at 73.5 pounds each -- that is more managable, but still no fun. (It will be a bit less since on the second trip as you can leave your rifle and part your original 25 pounds of pack weight in camp -- this may help offset your fatigue for the second trip!) [Of course in bear country maybe you don' t want to leave your rifle and some of that 25 pounds may be " always take it" stuff, like water.] So, no rest for the wicked!
How long will it take? This is the biggest variable, it depends. What kind of shape are you in? Can you REALLY exert yourself without getting a touch of Altitude Sickness? How warm is it? Is the elk uphill from camp making for a downhill hike or vice versa? Is there a good trail or is it a bush wack or is it a boulder hop and a scree field? Is it 3 miles or is it 4 miles -- that extra mile could be the longest in your life. Just generally answering without knowing any of the above, if you shoot him at 900am and you have him all back into camp by 1100pm, then you are probably doing pretty good -- sounds like fun. Now for the best part, is camp next to the road or way back in the rough, thus involving another packing session to get to the truck -- blistered feet, aching joints, and sickness potential here -- this is iron man territory you are talking about.
How do you keep the meat from spoiling? Part of it is not in your control. First season and warm, then it is a race against time for sure. If your meat " rinds up" in dry air, then that will help preserve it a bit and keep the blow fly eggs from growing into maggots (about a 16 hour emergence period under ideal circumstances -- thank God for cool/cold night air). Storing meat in the north side shade can help. Seems like whole quarters fair better against spoiling than deboned meat, but under your stated conditions I wouldn' t recommend backpacking whole intact quarters.
BTW, if while packing out your bull, what are you going to do if another shot at another elk presents itself -- think twice!
So for way too many of the people out there the logistics are indeed impossible. I' ve seen shoulders hanging in the tree long after they should have been gone, people too blistered up and sore such that when they got to the truck they just packed up and slinked out of there.
You are to be commended for wrestling with this issue BEFORE pulling the trigger! Nothing wrong with using an outfitter. We rent a horse and that works fine. I understand people WANTING to use a ATV to go way back in off trail and get their elk out but I cannot condone it at all on public land. If you are an iron man and can " pull it off" doing the back pack thing, then you are tougher than I am!
Side note, once you end up at the meat processors (assuming you don' t cut your own), then you may find that deboned meat in " blob-like" game bags are not too welcome -- sometimes you can' t win for losing.
Good luck with your hunt,
EKM
Those are NOT dumb questions unless they only concern you AFTER you have shot your elk! For many folks there is no better way to screw up a perfectly good elk hunt than for someone to actually shoot, kill, and acquire their elk -- then the problems begin -- starting with not having enough cutting, sharpening, sawing (or hatchet/axe) power. You may have heard me insist, " Elk are not deer, not even BIG deer!" and the first time you stand over one you' ve killed you' ll know just what I mean -- take lots of cutting power.
Let' s start with the critter, nice bull will have a live weight of 500 to 600 pounds (at least in my area, don' t have many monster bulls). So lets say a nice bull of 550 pounds live weight. I came across a " weight break down formula" and put it into a spreadsheet and per experience, it seems to figure out about right.
When you gut him he will lose 32.5% so now he is at 372 field dressed. Now take off the hide and the head and he loses another 63 pounds so now he is at 309 without his head and hide. Out of this 309 pounds if you debone the meat, then you should have 160 pounds of mostly packagable meat and 149 pounds of bones and unusable flesh.
So if you and your friend can carry 80 pounds (160/2) each then you can get it in one trip -- just a couple of catches. One, you are already probably carrying 25 plus pounds in your pack plus your rifle at about 10 with scope, sling, and ammo. So that makes it 25 original + 80 deboned meat + 10 rifle = 115 pounds. Two, are you going to take the head or the hide? Since it is a bull you will have to take the head and if it is your first elk then you' ll probably take the hide. So add on the 63 pounds for that and now on average you are at 147 (115 +32) pounds each if you are going to do it in one trip. LOL. Have you tested your limits regarding maximum backpack weight while you are still at home? How about maximum distance at maximum weight?
Okay, so two trips each at 73.5 pounds each -- that is more managable, but still no fun. (It will be a bit less since on the second trip as you can leave your rifle and part your original 25 pounds of pack weight in camp -- this may help offset your fatigue for the second trip!) [Of course in bear country maybe you don' t want to leave your rifle and some of that 25 pounds may be " always take it" stuff, like water.] So, no rest for the wicked!
How long will it take? This is the biggest variable, it depends. What kind of shape are you in? Can you REALLY exert yourself without getting a touch of Altitude Sickness? How warm is it? Is the elk uphill from camp making for a downhill hike or vice versa? Is there a good trail or is it a bush wack or is it a boulder hop and a scree field? Is it 3 miles or is it 4 miles -- that extra mile could be the longest in your life. Just generally answering without knowing any of the above, if you shoot him at 900am and you have him all back into camp by 1100pm, then you are probably doing pretty good -- sounds like fun. Now for the best part, is camp next to the road or way back in the rough, thus involving another packing session to get to the truck -- blistered feet, aching joints, and sickness potential here -- this is iron man territory you are talking about.
How do you keep the meat from spoiling? Part of it is not in your control. First season and warm, then it is a race against time for sure. If your meat " rinds up" in dry air, then that will help preserve it a bit and keep the blow fly eggs from growing into maggots (about a 16 hour emergence period under ideal circumstances -- thank God for cool/cold night air). Storing meat in the north side shade can help. Seems like whole quarters fair better against spoiling than deboned meat, but under your stated conditions I wouldn' t recommend backpacking whole intact quarters.
BTW, if while packing out your bull, what are you going to do if another shot at another elk presents itself -- think twice!
So for way too many of the people out there the logistics are indeed impossible. I' ve seen shoulders hanging in the tree long after they should have been gone, people too blistered up and sore such that when they got to the truck they just packed up and slinked out of there.
You are to be commended for wrestling with this issue BEFORE pulling the trigger! Nothing wrong with using an outfitter. We rent a horse and that works fine. I understand people WANTING to use a ATV to go way back in off trail and get their elk out but I cannot condone it at all on public land. If you are an iron man and can " pull it off" doing the back pack thing, then you are tougher than I am!
Side note, once you end up at the meat processors (assuming you don' t cut your own), then you may find that deboned meat in " blob-like" game bags are not too welcome -- sometimes you can' t win for losing.
Good luck with your hunt,
EKM
09-01-2003, 06:26 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Hope Ontario Canada
Posts: 493
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
Neweboarhunter, take two rookie moose hunters throw in a 3 1/2 year old bull moose down at 10:30am, What do ya got ? Two throughly exhausted hunters at 11:00pm that night
. I can guess elk are similiar because although smaller than moose they like those mountains.
. I can guess elk are similiar because although smaller than moose they like those mountains.
09-01-2003, 07:35 AM
#8
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Colorado
Posts: 411
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
Gosh EKM, it doesn' t seem possible, only six weeks left to wait!!!
I might have told you I am doing a " solo" hunt this year. I have been up to the areas I intend to hunt many times this year, but have two more scouting trips planned. Given that bow season just opened, have you ever had problems screwing up things for the bow hunters (and front stuffers) on late scouting trips??? I am planning on bringing up water on my next trips, but how the heck did you get the 25 pounds of gear number? I have pared and pared, and come up with at least twice that, before rifle. By the way, if you bone out an elk, what do you say to the DOW people when they want to see evidence of sex attached? I have done some " trading" , and have the use of two pack horses after I get my elk down. Some friends that hunt a different unit didn' t get 1st season tags, so will help me out. However, it would take at least two days for them to get the elk out. I am not really concerned about spoilage at 11,000' , but other critters. How do you get around this problem???
When I started planning this hunt, TWO years ago, I had my heart set on using my guide gun with 420 grain Garretts. You know the story with the .416 and I am torn between the two. I get an extra 150 yards in range, at the cost of lugging around 4 more pounds. To make things worse, about 1/2 of the areas I looked at, you would never get a shot at more than 50 yards, and the other half, never less than 200. Please provide your unbiased opinion!
I might have told you I am doing a " solo" hunt this year. I have been up to the areas I intend to hunt many times this year, but have two more scouting trips planned. Given that bow season just opened, have you ever had problems screwing up things for the bow hunters (and front stuffers) on late scouting trips??? I am planning on bringing up water on my next trips, but how the heck did you get the 25 pounds of gear number? I have pared and pared, and come up with at least twice that, before rifle. By the way, if you bone out an elk, what do you say to the DOW people when they want to see evidence of sex attached? I have done some " trading" , and have the use of two pack horses after I get my elk down. Some friends that hunt a different unit didn' t get 1st season tags, so will help me out. However, it would take at least two days for them to get the elk out. I am not really concerned about spoilage at 11,000' , but other critters. How do you get around this problem???
When I started planning this hunt, TWO years ago, I had my heart set on using my guide gun with 420 grain Garretts. You know the story with the .416 and I am torn between the two. I get an extra 150 yards in range, at the cost of lugging around 4 more pounds. To make things worse, about 1/2 of the areas I looked at, you would never get a shot at more than 50 yards, and the other half, never less than 200. Please provide your unbiased opinion!
09-01-2003, 09:02 AM
#9
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Niwot,Colo USA
Posts: 267
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
I would agree that there are people that are more in love with the " idea" of hunting more than they are with the actual hunt.Alot of people think that you just go to the hills, ride around for a while, shoot an animal and go home...no problem! That' s why a lot of guys go home empty handed after only a couple of days. They are not " PREPARED" to " GO HUNTING" My first year hunting (this is my 3rd) I went with a couple of " hunters" that I thought new what they were doing. WRONG! Thank God I took the advice of people on this message board like EKM,BJ and others. I learned how to SHOOT!! my rifle got myself in shape and prepared for the worst. I was the only one in camp that got an elk!!!!!!! and got it out by myself!!!!!!!WHOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
So ever since then I start early and prepare all summer hiking,shooting,scouting.We leave in just over a week for ML season. I guess all that is left is one final shoot and a final check of the packing list Boy! time flies when your having fun! Can' t wait! The freezer is gettin low!!
Happy Trails!!
Good Hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So ever since then I start early and prepare all summer hiking,shooting,scouting.We leave in just over a week for ML season. I guess all that is left is one final shoot and a final check of the packing list Boy! time flies when your having fun! Can' t wait! The freezer is gettin low!!
Happy Trails!!
Good Hunting!!!!!!!!!!!!!
09-01-2003, 09:23 AM
#10
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brook, IN
Posts: 491
RE: Ready, Get Set, Go!
EKM, Thanks for answering my questions. I do have to work on max distance and max backpack weight. I have done some hiking in NW Montana, I can usually go around 10-12 miles with a LIGHT daypack and NO rifle, sometimes a pistol. I have a few good knives and just ordered some from Knives of Alaska. Still need an axe and heavy bone saw. As well as other camping gear. 2004 season would be the earlist I would go, so I have time to aquire gear and get in shape.
I like your plan rent horses. Do they set you up with the packs for the horses? On average what do you expect to pay for rent. I have seen a growing number of lamas being used as pack animal only. What are your thoughts on these criiters?
I like your plan rent horses. Do they set you up with the packs for the horses? On average what do you expect to pay for rent. I have seen a growing number of lamas being used as pack animal only. What are your thoughts on these criiters?