BowElkDwn,
I've heard once you go bow hunting you'll never go back to rifle hunting. I'm sure it requires an added degree of stalking/hunting skill. Just out of curiosity, what rifles do you use besides the 30-30 and if you got a wild hair and decided to rifle hunt elk which would you use?

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

my son is left handed and i didn't want to pay alot for a left handed rifle. i wanted a 30-30 for along time so i asked for one for fathers day and got one. i use a 30-06 and use 180 grn bullets for elk and will still prefer it over any other rifle because i've used it for almost 20 years now. but that's not saying that i might not use the 30-30 in the future.

the winchester lever action rifle has been arround a long time and has filled a lot of stomachs through out it's history. i don't think that i or anybody should condem another for his or her choice of rifles. my mother used a 30-30 in her day and alot of other women use it for hunting too.......


i also enjoy bow hunting for elk and deer but i still rifle hunt when i get drawn for a rifle hunt.


if i was finding alot of dead and wounded animals in my neck of the woods i would take a look at the hunters in my hunt unit and not worry about anothers choice of rifle.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> just my .02


[email protected]




IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......

ElkampMaster
If I did decide to rifle elk hunt again it would just depend on the terrain that I was going to hunt. If I was hunting the unit that I usually bow hunt in I would definently take my 30-30 open sights for the quikness and range of it. If I decided to go to a different spot like New Mexico or Arizona where there is a bigger possibility of a shot more in the 200-250 range than I would probably take a 30-06 or 7mm.
I have read before that you use a 375. Those are the guys that scare me. The only reason that you would need a gun that big is to shoot long distance. I know some guys that use those real big guns and they have told me if they can see it they can shoot it. I have also heard the guys that have said &quot;yea I saw an elk on the top of a ridge so I popped off a couple rounds but it didn't go down so we didn't go all the way up there. If you hit them with this big of a caliber you're going to be able to tell he's hit.&quot; These might be a few of those wounded elk that you've seen.
Just out of curiosity I was wondering what the farthest shot you would take is.

My experience with large caliber rifles are that they aren't exactly the best &quot;long range&quot; guns as far as trajectory goes, but I have no experience with the 375.

&quot;Hey ya'll, watch this&quot;

i live in arizona and i've never had to shoot over 60-80 yds actually most of my shots have been under 50 yds.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

IF IT IS TO BE......
IT IS UP TO ME......

ElkBowDn,
I regret that my selection of rifles scares you, that is not my intent. Also, congratulations on your telepathic powers, interesting how you claim to know what I do and don't need....&quot;

Good imagination! Of all the threads I have read in a while, that one about &quot;big bore magnums being a threat to wounding wildlife&quot; is a &quot;new&quot; angle I have not yet seen nor heard, I'll have to be sure to mention it over on the African board I'm following as I'm sure it will provide a source of endless amusement. The 30-30 discussion has already provided them with a good giggle. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge most governments (including our own states) impose a minimum cartridge performance standard, but I am unaware of any maximums -- must be a reason!

As you point out, it is unfortunate that our sport seems to have a never ending supply of folks that see themselves as &quot;prodigy/sniper wannabes&quot; and who think they can ethically take elk at 400, 500, 600 yards and beyond. Regarding your theory that some/most/all folks out there that carry big bores are long range shooters that are stretching the &quot;long end of the kill envelope&quot; I would say, &quot;One has to be careful about applying such generalites to the specifics.&quot;

If I were to foolishly attempt to generalize that group, I would be prone to sterotype them as being those infatuated with high velocity-flat shooting cartridges fired by memorized ballistics/wind drift table crazed shooters that spend too much time on the bench rest, but on a hunter to hunter examination of the facts that generalization won't hold up any better than yours.

Now, out of the &quot;generalities&quot; B.S. and on to the specifics of your post regarding my use of the 375HH. My &quot;specifics&quot; are as follows:

338Mag is really one of my favorite rounds all told and the rifles aren't so heavy to carry as a 375HH, however..... My two boys (age 20) after witnessing the previously discussed &quot;cow elk -- classic behind the shoulder shot -- .270 -- no flinch, no limp, run off -- subsequent mile and quarter tracking job&quot; both wanted to move up in cartridge selection. I obliged. The upper end of my rack goes as follows: .270, 30-06, 338Win (2), and 375HH (never mind the 45-70). They left the .270 and .30-06 behind and now use the two 338mags including my old favorite. Buying another (3rd) 338Mag seemed a bit silly, so I simply moved over to the 375HH.

My camp mates gave me a good natured ribbing about the 375HH until opening day at show time that is. I had two elk licenses, two elk came my way, 210 yards, 2 shots, 2 elk down, laid within 30 yards of each other -- Ohhhhhhh Yeahhhhhh! May not long for my old favorite 338 back any more!

Regarding the longest shot I would take is, the answer -- and you'll hate this -- is it depends. A fleeting shot free hand, about 70 yards. A shot sitting, over my knees, (must have got caught in the open) with elk standing 200 yards maybe 250yards. A shot standing bracing off of a nice aspen with good and comfortable footing (my favorite) and elk standing about 300 yards. Sorry to disappoint.

Miscellaneous Odds and Ends:
(1) The longest shot I have taken on anything was an antelope (got him) at a little over 350 yards and that was in my youth, which by your vernacular, I'm sure you can appreciate.
(2) Consider expanding your horizons, being too provincial limits experience -- in other parts of the world, the 375 is little more than mid-caliber. (I loved seattlesetters post regarding 30-30's and most game taken -- how true!)
(3) In discussions such as this one, when one side's supply of &quot;rational arguing ammo&quot; starts running dry the tendency is to reach for hypotheticals, stories, generalizations, 2nd and 3rd hand references and finally when all else fails, jump up and down and rant about how &quot;I got my rights......&quot; (Never mind any rights the elk might deserve) At that point you know the ammo can done went completely dry.
(4) Since it is Super Bowl Sunday lets check the old score board since this thread is late in the fourth quarter:
*** (9) Absolutely No - crobride, kodiak (converted), EKM, Nick, Rather, halcon, BJ, Dreamin, and stickerpt
*** (3) Waffle, But Recommend Against - elknut, robert scott, duffy
*** (3 1/2) Yes/OK/Its Your Right - But No One Current Using A 30-30 -
handloader1, 121553, BowElkDwn, Dart (maybe won't use 30-30: 1/2 pt)
*** (1/2) Yes - Dart (maybe will use 30-30: 1/2 pt)
*** (0) Yes,Yes that's my 30-30 and I currently use it on elk and will again next year (first hand)
---------------------------------------------
I really don't think overtime is going to be required for this one!

Never undergunned,
EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/26/2003 06:58:20

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/26/2003 07:42:08

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/26/2003 07:58:32

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/26/2003 08:07:26

Don't know if the &quot;small is better&quot; feller was on this thread or not. But, whatever thet feller's smokin' should sell real good. He needs to stick to drugs cause he sure don't know 'bout killin' big animals. Been known for ages thet small pills are more fragile, no matter how they are constructed. Take two rocks, one big and one small, made outta the same granite, and shoot them outta a slingshot at a granite wall. The bigger rock will make the bigger hole and break up into fewer pieces. Simple rock science. Now where can I git some of thet tobaccy he's usin'?

BJ

Edited by - BeaverJack on 01/26/2003 06:32:17

You guys are funny, I always wondered what would happen when sombody went against the perverbial grain and questioned you. You're narrow-mindedness has provided myself with &quot;a good giggle&quot; because while accusing me of limiting my horizons you haven't recognized that I've used a 30-30 and had success. I've never wounded an animal with a 30-30 and in that case, I've never wounded an animal at all. It's to each persons own and his ethics. I realize that animals have been wounded with a 30-30, just as could happen with a 375 or with any of the cannons that you prefer, which is why I'm not advocating it for everyone. If you hit an elk in the lungs, whether it be with an arrow or bullet, it doesn't matter the size of hole it will make because the elk is going down humanely.
You're right- I'm 24 years young. But I think we've lost focus here. I've taken hunting seriously since I was of legal age and have been successful at it. I walked around in the woods with my father since I could take my first step. I finally started hunting at the age of 12. Those were the longest 12 years of my life. I just couldn't wait to get out there and hunt. I live from hunting season to hunting season and scout in between. I have been able to hunt for 10 years, taken elk in 10 of them and 10 muley bucks. 8 of the elk were 5 and 6-point bulls ranging from 280 to 330. One of the muleys was number three in the state when I killed it. There's no reason for me to have changed the rifle I used just because others can't hit the mark. I don't hunt with a gun anymore because my state makes me choose rifle or bow and I chose archery because of bugling bulls. I've never had the adrenaline run through my vains like having a bull close enough to touch and ripping out a bone crunching bugle. You guys can have your guns and shoot them at hundreds of yards. I'll stick with a few feet. The bottom line, and the reason I defend a 30-30 is this: If I can shoot elk with an arrow and they go down in less than 20 yards, I think a 30-30 will do the trick. Actually I know it will, I've done it myself. You can keep lugging around your big guns leaning on a small tree and pop of a shot at 300 yards and watch your elk pile up. I'm still picking my bow.
Your vernacular may be impressive but a college education doesn't put elk in your freezer! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Having my son live in NC for the better part of the year I didn't know he even belonged to the boards here, I guess all my talking about them has made him a convert. Obviously he's been following this thread and had some points of his own to make although I thought the points made and the truce called was enough. He's been taught well and obviously has plenty of experience on his own. He's a man now with his own opinions, and good ones!! I'm proud of you boy!
elknut1

www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!

Hold the press! Change of vote - not only is our first currently active 30-30 user been found but someone who has taken amazing amounts of game of the highest caliber (no pun intended) in an amazingly short time. Truly impressive.

Former Score: 9 - 3 - 3.5 - .5 - 0 (Essentially 12 to 4)
Revised Score: 9 - 3 - 2.5 - .5 - 1 (Essentially 12 to 4+)

I assume dad's advice to crobride's visitor would be the same he'd give his own, i.e. &quot;30-30 not recommended&quot; so I guess young'in hasn't been following dad's advice given that trail of 30-30 destruction but we were all that way once.

Is &quot;you guys&quot; (rifle elkhunters) kind of like &quot;you people&quot; (as in racial slur)? Applying generalities to specifics -- again? Some of us'n's ain'ts got sich a gud edycation and well, some of us do. However, seems like most everybody until now knows which forum to go to if they are looking for folks of similar mind (kinda like picking the correct bathroom) and if you infiltrate a forum where you know people are of different mind (you lowly rifle hunters) and get a negative reaction why would you be the least surprised?

Interesting, how when countered point, to point, to point, to point instead of picking up where you left off; you brushed it all off as narrow minded and went yapping off in a new direction as youngins is known to do.

Dad, you did a pretty good job of teaching junior how to argue and stand up. One's got to watch out in a written argument though - you can't be quite as lax as in a verbal argument. That line, &quot;I think a 30-30 will do the trick. Actually I know it will, I've done it myself&quot; may well create questions in our readership here. Someone who has blazed a swath of 30-30 destruction as wide and as long as was described would speak a bit more authoritatively at that particular junction.

Also, the truce you mention was in place and holding. I was just wrapping up small talk with a bowhunter and another fellow who has a son hunting, when here comes this little undercover dynamo that wants to argue the demerits of &quot;using too much gun.&quot; Only took one go around to get things out from undercover and in the open. And one go round of &quot;point on point&quot; to quickly get that line of talk abandoned and then go dragging the thread off in a new direction (bashing rifle hunters in general) without finishing up business where it was left off. Ah well, youth, they do have a short attention span!

Score is 12 to 4 and you have me double teamed 2 to 1 - show me what you got boys! It's going to require a touchdown and an extra point conversion just to get into over time. 15, 14, 13, 12 .......

&quot;Narrow minded&quot; when it comes to the elk's welfare and still

Never Undergunned,

EKM



Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!