Killin' an' elk and finding a kilt elk are two differnt things. People used to hunt elk a lot with 30-30s back in the early 1900s. They also didn't have limits an' 'bout wiped the critter off the planet at one point. Read 'bout Teddy Roosevelt's Two Ocean Pass Hunt. He never took the meat of a bull, would gut shoot 'em on purpose, and lost many he hit. With all the people we got nowadays, there ain't even no sense in talkin' bout takin' a pop gun after the best game animal we got.

BJ

Of course there are many people who believe that a 30-30 isn't fit for killing anything bigger than a squirrel. The 30-30 is a fine gun if you can shoot it right. If I only had a 30-30 and wanted to go elk hunting I would choose my 30-30 over anyone someone elses gun anyday. Or buy a new gun. But that's just me. I like to use my own equipment.




"Hey ya'll, watch this"

Jack O'Conner killed more than one grizzly bear with a 30-30. If you get close enough there is no reason that a 30-30 wouldn't work well on elk.

"Hey ya'll, watch this"

ElkampMaster I usually don't make comments like this but in this case I for one have to say something. I think the comment you made about the 30/30 was pathetic at best. It is obvious to me from your statements that you've never even fired a round from a 30/30 at an elk but yet you have heavy accusations to say about it. You must run a mighty interesting hunting camp there, having to ok everyones choice of weapon before they're welcome there. With comments such as this, I'd be concerned with who was still showing up at hunting camp this year.EXAMPLE That's like me running a friend out of bowhunting camp because he shows up with a recurve bow. ABSOLUTLEY RIDICULOUS. elknut1.

www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!

Heck, if you can bowhunt elk from 40 yrds away then why can't you shoot an elk with a 30-30 with 170's? Is this best prefered elk rifle? No Its Not. But every hunter has a 30-30 thrown in the back some where and if you happen to be lucky enough to stumble upon a nice bull up to 100 yrds away, then why not. If your a stalker than go for it.

"Ethical" first time hunt for greenhorn elk hunter using 30-30:['Fair Chase' rules suspended due to 'sub-standard caliber']

Go to game preserve.
Have elk tied to tree.
Get close.
Get very close.
Aim careful.
Aim very careful.
Hit elk with first shot.
Don't let elk get loose from the rope after first shot.
Quickly shoot elk many times until dead.
"Clean" kill, congratulations.

We are talking "real world-in the wild" elk hunting for this 30-30 discussion aren't we?

One of the "finest" points about my Winchester Model 94 30-30 is it holds lots of rounds (full length tube magazine) and the action cycles fast (lever action) - - given the wimpiness of the 30-30 it's good they built them that way.

Respect for the elk we hunt requires the use of quick, overwhelming, and lethal force and that just IS NOT the definition of a 30-30.

Can't afford the tools? Too proud to borrow? The solution is easy.

Save Your Money And Stay Home Where Your "Big Game" is 30-30 size.

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/23/2003 22:58:10

Hot Damn, if some fellas don't get fired up 'bout their shootin irons!! I've got a mdl 94 that I've shot so much I've probably near wore out the riflin'. I can shoot better with that gun than any other that I own, but I wouldn't take it elk hunting. Problem is, rifle hunting more often than not results in shots in excess of 100 yds. Shooting at an elk at much over 80 yds with a 30-30 just ain't fair to the animal. If you have the self control to pass on a 6x6 at 200 yds because you don't have enough gun then more power to you. I say take more gun and increase your chances. It's damn hard enough to get within two hundred yds during rifle season, say nothing about getting close enough for a saddle gun

Life begins where the pavement ends!

Crobride I hope you can take all the info here that's been said and help your friend out. It's obvious most of the posts here lean toward the fact that a 30/30 will work, it's just limited in range. If your buddy decides to stay with his 30/30 I hope you're a good caller so any shot he might take is well within the guns range. I would'nt let negative feed back sway your decision to easily as your friend may be very comftorable with his weapon and that's half the battle. He may be one to flinch with larger calibers so he would defenitley be better off with the 30/30. Good luck in your decision. elknut1.

www.elknut.com
Bugling Bulls & Beyond!

elknut1,
You chimed in while I was busy writing away, hence this second post.
Quite observant that I am indeed passionate on this point. Your points deserve response though it is unlikely to change either of our viewpoints; however, I will say that my view point is grounded in a lifetime of experience around livestock and hunting and things gone right and things gone wrong and not a simple desire to be combative. It's all grounded in the ethic that animals shouldn't suffer needlessly.

1. Grew up on a ranch. You get it drilled into you thru and thru from kid on up that it is your responsibility to not let animals suffer and especially if they're not going to make it (terminally sick, injured, etc) - even if it requires some dirty work on your part to end it. Then the idea of actually doing something intentionally that could put an animal in that "suffering and going to die (slow) position" was then and still is now unthinkable.

2. You are right, I have never fired a single 30-30 round at an elk. I wouldn't think of it! When I was 13 I got to see what a "pathetic job" a 30-30 did in the hands of a seasoned adult on a mere white tail, turned me off right there (if you're going to kill something then KILL it). I bought my 270 the next year at 14 - didn't want any part of maiming deer, even though the same thing happened AGAIN with my adult counterpart!

"Heavy accusations" for using the same 30-30 caliber on game three times the size and twice the toughness when it couldn't even take care of a deer?? Absolutely, Positively, Yes!

After 9 years of bambi hunting, I got my big break! There were no elk where we lived but at 23 got an invitation to go elk hunting in Montana. I didn't ask them what caliber, I figured it was my responsibility to appropriately "gear up" for the increased size and toughness of my quarry on my own and without prompting from my hosts. Bought the 338mag the next week.

3. You are right, it is an interesting camp, but not in the sense you imply. We have a great time, we are a tight group, and we all hate the prospect tracking crippled elk; elk hunting is hard enough as is. Before anyone new gets asked to join in I do casually find out what they are going to be shooting for caliber and so far I haven't had to turn anyone down yet -- why? -- because I seek out level headed and ethical hunters and they have enough #@$%*&@#$%&%&#@! common sense to want to use enough gun in the first place! We have never have had less than a .270 in camp and he dropped it like a hot potato and went straight to a .338, not because I said so, but because he didn't like what he saw happen with his .270!

4. Lets see, who's coming next year? Well, we filled five of six elk tags in 2002. Everyone is coming back. We got two new hunters going to join us (7mmMag's), may have to add on to the tent. So it would seem the primia facie evidence would appear to debunk your concerns of dwindling membership vis a vis responsible caliber requirements.

5. Run someone out of camp? Hell no, that's not an adult way to handle things for crying out loud. Wouldn't do to have someone buy tags, plan vacation time, spend other money to be robbed at the finish line -- no! That's why you work out these "little" details in advance! If you go back to the beginning of this thread you'll see that that is what crobride is doing - there is some worry there - successful elk hunting don't happen by accident!
---------------

So there you have it my friend -- why I think a 30-30 is a pathetic caliber for elk.

YOUR TURN! So why is a 30-30 NOT a pathetic caliber for elk?

First hand experience here, no waffling, no diverting the topic, no ballistics tables (even though they would simply make my point), no THIRD hand stories about so and so did or says this or so and so did or said that, no quotes from the reloading manuals. Just level headed, first hand, point on point "WHY". If you're convincing maybe I'll have to take the old 30-30 out of hibernation!

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/24/2003 00:32:24

Ok, First hand experience. I can only comment on your seasoned hunter using a 30-30 on deer. I have used a 30-30 on deer all my life up until last year. I never had to track any of them. They went down like lightning, even the exteamly long shots reaching nearly out to 200 yards. I got about 10 deer with it using 150 grain power points. Maybe my "good" experiences with the 30-30 have uped it's worth in my mind. I have never had any problems whatsoever with any 30-30 killing anything from blackbear to northern whitetails.

Now, that's the end of my first hand experience, but I will assume based on my experience with elk (limited hunting of them and up close and personal on an elk farm for a while) that the caliber would be fine for hunting elk provided that the shooter do his part and shoot at an appropriate range of out to about 100 yards. With anything if I were "trophy" hunting I would choose a 338 hands down. But for your average shootable elk, I don't see how the 30-30 wouldn't work. I do think of the 30-30 as the minimum for hunting elk, but not totaly out of the question. Obviously you have more experience than I do, so I respect your opinion greatly. These are just my personal opinions and observations.



"Hey ya'll, watch this"