elknut1,
You chimed in while I was busy writing away, hence this second post.
Quite observant that I am indeed passionate on this point. Your points deserve response though it is unlikely to change either of our viewpoints; however, I will say that my view point is grounded in a lifetime of experience around livestock and hunting and things gone right and things gone wrong and not a simple desire to be combative. It's all grounded in the ethic that animals shouldn't suffer needlessly.

1. Grew up on a ranch. You get it drilled into you thru and thru from kid on up that it is your responsibility to not let animals suffer and especially if they're not going to make it (terminally sick, injured, etc) - even if it requires some dirty work on your part to end it. Then the idea of actually doing something intentionally that could put an animal in that "suffering and going to die (slow) position" was then and still is now unthinkable.

2. You are right, I have never fired a single 30-30 round at an elk. I wouldn't think of it! When I was 13 I got to see what a "pathetic job" a 30-30 did in the hands of a seasoned adult on a mere white tail, turned me off right there (if you're going to kill something then KILL it). I bought my 270 the next year at 14 - didn't want any part of maiming deer, even though the same thing happened AGAIN with my adult counterpart!

"Heavy accusations" for using the same 30-30 caliber on game three times the size and twice the toughness when it couldn't even take care of a deer?? Absolutely, Positively, Yes!

After 9 years of bambi hunting, I got my big break! There were no elk where we lived but at 23 got an invitation to go elk hunting in Montana. I didn't ask them what caliber, I figured it was my responsibility to appropriately "gear up" for the increased size and toughness of my quarry on my own and without prompting from my hosts. Bought the 338mag the next week.

3. You are right, it is an interesting camp, but not in the sense you imply. We have a great time, we are a tight group, and we all hate the prospect tracking crippled elk; elk hunting is hard enough as is. Before anyone new gets asked to join in I do casually find out what they are going to be shooting for caliber and so far I haven't had to turn anyone down yet -- why? -- because I seek out level headed and ethical hunters and they have enough #@$%*&@#$%&%&#@! common sense to want to use enough gun in the first place! We have never have had less than a .270 in camp and he dropped it like a hot potato and went straight to a .338, not because I said so, but because he didn't like what he saw happen with his .270!

4. Lets see, who's coming next year? Well, we filled five of six elk tags in 2002. Everyone is coming back. We got two new hunters going to join us (7mmMag's), may have to add on to the tent. So it would seem the primia facie evidence would appear to debunk your concerns of dwindling membership vis a vis responsible caliber requirements.

5. Run someone out of camp? Hell no, that's not an adult way to handle things for crying out loud. Wouldn't do to have someone buy tags, plan vacation time, spend other money to be robbed at the finish line -- no! That's why you work out these "little" details in advance! If you go back to the beginning of this thread you'll see that that is what crobride is doing - there is some worry there - successful elk hunting don't happen by accident!
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So there you have it my friend -- why I think a 30-30 is a pathetic caliber for elk.

YOUR TURN! So why is a 30-30 NOT a pathetic caliber for elk?

First hand experience here, no waffling, no diverting the topic, no ballistics tables (even though they would simply make my point), no THIRD hand stories about so and so did or says this or so and so did or said that, no quotes from the reloading manuals. Just level headed, first hand, point on point "WHY". If you're convincing maybe I'll have to take the old 30-30 out of hibernation!

EKM

Good judgment comes from bad experience! Half of elk hunting is knowing what NOT to do!

Edited by - ELKampMaster on 01/24/2003 00:32:24