Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
12-21-2006, 04:49 AM
#52
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,061
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
In Wisconsin i think hunters need to get more involved in the reporting of lots of certain wildlife.Pine martins,wolves,lynx ,cougars. That sort of thing.The feds do want an accurate count.There resorces are not endless.they need help for the winter count.If you see tracks in an area,or see the actual animal,dont just talk about it to your bar buddies.Report it.Theres a spot on the WI dnr websight to order post cards,when filled out and mailed to mad city they will get someone in the area to look it over.Get involved more than just with a backtag on.Its alot of fun,and ya learn alot.
12-21-2006, 05:12 AM
#53
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 249
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
yep we don't need them, but they are here to stay. Makes me sad to see the deer,elk,moose being decimated. they should be treated as coyoteand shoot on sight.
12-21-2006, 06:42 AM
#55
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,832
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
ORIGINAL: furgitter
Thats true Jeff,we are supposed to be the smart ones.The ones that ACT,and dont REACT.An action is a movement which has been thaught out,planned,and executed.In my opinion there would be fewer wounded animals if hunters would learn to act.instead of reacting to a flash,a noise, a running animal out of range.
Thats true Jeff,we are supposed to be the smart ones.The ones that ACT,and dont REACT.An action is a movement which has been thaught out,planned,and executed.In my opinion there would be fewer wounded animals if hunters would learn to act.instead of reacting to a flash,a noise, a running animal out of range.
Its the fact that these same hunters who cripple these animals decide its there best interest to shoot another.......
There goes the quality of hunting....and Outfittter Closures.....
Say a hunter shoots at a 240 class buck wounds it and it gets away and dies to its injury later...Its early in the season so it doesn't pass on its genectics during the rut...
2 days later the same hunter goes into the same area and this time dumps a 220 buck.......
Now we have problems.....2 big brutes down neverto pass on the genes..
This happens lots every year...
This can take years to recover....Even though their genes have been passed down from years past,what are the chances ( with all the pressure) that there oiffspring will ever get as big as there daddies..
The same senerio holds true for elk.....
The quality of hunting does start with us, because it is already a country wide issue....
Worrying about wolves taking over the country is certainly a concern but hunters doing this is a greater cause for concern because its country wide.....
Guiding outfits depend on big quality trophies for employment and Tourism Ind depends on it too....This is getting way too big to ignore.....
12-21-2006, 10:39 AM
#57
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Beautiful Western Montana
Posts: 2,308
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Well we finally had a biologist fess up that the wolves a creating problems. In the Missoulian Newspapera Montanabiologist with MFWPhas stated that the elk have migrated too early into the Grant Creek winter range to escape predatory pressure from the wolves. Biologist are concerned at how low many elk in the region are, and they are concerned that the elk may abandon traditional migratory patterns and stay low in their winter range creating new human/elk encounter problems. They believe that the wolves are changing elk behavior and forcing them into human populated lower ranges. I can track down the article if anyone is interested. It's happening, the wolf climate around here is starting to change, problems are beginning to develope.
12-21-2006, 12:20 PM
#58
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: wisconsin
Posts: 1,061
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Post it if you can dude,This is interresting stuff and a guy has to stay on top of it year arround to see what kind of effect it will have on another animal species,US!
12-21-2006, 07:07 PM
#59
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 249
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
This may interest you did you Know
"There's never been a documented case of a healthy, wild wolf killing a human in North America." If we received two bits for every time we've heard this overstated statement, we could buy all those North American wolves filet mignon.
Nevertheless, we feel compelled to say it too, at least twice during the course of a Wild Sentry program.
Unfortunately, the "no healthy, wild wolf" sound byte is often misstated with the word "killing" replaced by "attacking". This is not true. Wild wolves have attacked humans in North America. That's why we always add, "This doesn't mean that wolves have absolutely never killed a human or that they never will. After all, humans never cut a deal with wolves to leave us alone." So how much danger do wolves pose to people? Should we steer clear of dark forests inhabited by wolves? Are the reasons given for aggressive wolves more an apologia than an explanation? Is it reasonable to think that wolves will eventually kill a human?
Before reviewing recent wolf attacks in North America, it should be noted that, outside of North America, wolves have killed humans. Tales about massive wolf packs devastating caravans of Russian troikas (as in Willa Cather's My Antonia) are undoubtedly fiction. During their brief reign of terror in France from 1764 to 1767, the infamous Beasts of Gervaudan killed at least sixty-four people-but it's been well established that these animals were hybrids not wolves. Most of the deaths blamed on wolves in southern and central Europe and in central Asia are attributable to hybrids or rabid wolves.
However, in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, from March to October 1996 and March to April 1997, a wolf or wolves killed or injured as many as seventy-four Indian children, almost all of them under the age of ten. The deaths occurred among children playing or relieving themselves on the outskirts of small villages. There were also reports of a wolf entering huts, though it sounds as if no children were harmed.
[font=""]Recent Attacks in North America[/font]
In Ontario, Canada where thousands of people visit Algonquin Provincial Park-and many of them come to see or hear wolves-five people have been bit in the past twelve years. During August 1996, a wolf dragged 12-year-old Zachariah Delventhal from his sleeping bag. This particular wolf, prior to attacking Zachariah, had entered campsites and taken things such as a backpack, tennis shoe and other human items. As we've been in contact with the Delventhal family, we can let Zachariah describe what happened. He wrote the following in November 1996:
"The scariest night of my life� was the last night of a terrific 10-day camping trip at Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario. We were exhausted and wanted to get out the next morning quickly so we decided to sleep under the stars. I remember dreaming that me, my mom, and my dad were walking through the woods. Then I felt pressure on my head and the woods started flying past. I awoke and still felt the pressure, but there was a new feeling of pain. I screamed, immediately the pressure released and the pain lessened. I opened my eyes-nothing but dark forest. I had been dragged six feet and I knew it was an animal mouth that did it. I yelled, 'Something bit me!' My mother came and held my sleeping bag to my face. Then my dad got up and started yelling. I got scared as he disappeared into the underbrush but he came back. I asked, 'What was it?' Then came two terrifying words, 'A wolf.' I immediately started to pull away from where I was dragged, I freaked. It was so scary and confusing at the same time. I didn't want to get eaten by such a strong animal. As for confusing, think about this-I had been told wolves don't attack people and here I was practically killed by one. My list of wounds is extensive. I had over 80 stitches to close the many cuts, my nose was broken in five places, I am missing a piece of my ear, my gums, and my tear duct and cheekbone were punctured. After all this, don't be scared to go in the woods, don't think of wolves as killers. The chances of getting attacked are so slim; I can't get a hold of the fact that I was attacked. My parents were wrong when they said wolves don't attack people, but wolves almost never do."
Two years later, on September 25, 1998, another Algonquin wolf circled a little girl and despite blasts of pepper spray, didn't leave until the child entered a trailer. Two days after that, a nineteen-month-old boy sat playing in the middle of camp, with his parents twenty feet away. The father thought he saw a dog emerge from the brush. He turned away for a moment and when he looked back, he saw his son in the jaws of a wolf. The wolf held the boy for a moment and then tossed him three feet. A local newspaper quoted the parents, "It wasn't hit and run. He hit him [the infant] and then it was wait and see. He [the wolf] circled the picnic table a number of times before he was scared off enough to leave." The infant received two stitches for minor injuries.
On April 26, 2000, a six and nine year old boy cut down small trees as they played at being loggers on the outskirts of a logging camp near Yakutat in southeastern Alaska. Upon seeing a wolf, the children fled. The wolf took down six-year-old John Stenglein and bit him on the back, legs and buttocks. A neighbor's golden retriever rushed to the rescue but the wolf drove the dog back and then set upon John again. The boy's cries brought adults who drove the wolf away. John received seven stitches and five surgical closure staples.
During the evening of July 1, 2000, on the shores of Vargas Island, British Columbia, a wolf entered the campsite of a kayaking group. They chased the wolf away. Members of the group also spotted another wolf that apparently hung back from the bolder wolf. At 2 a.m., 23-year-old Scott Langevin awoke with a small dark wolf tugging on his sleeping bag. "I yelled to try to spook it off, and I kicked at it," Scott said. "It backed up a bit, but then it just lunged on top of me, and it started biting away through my sleeping bag." He rolled in an effort to situate the fire between him and the wolf, but the animal jumped on his back and bit him about the head. The noise woke his friends and they drove the wolf away. The wounds to Scott's head required 50 stitches.
In all of the previous incidents, the offending wolves were killed. Autopsies indicated healthy animals.
"I pulled these story's up to clear things up for some people. After the wolf has killed off most game. it will come for us."
"There's never been a documented case of a healthy, wild wolf killing a human in North America." If we received two bits for every time we've heard this overstated statement, we could buy all those North American wolves filet mignon.
Nevertheless, we feel compelled to say it too, at least twice during the course of a Wild Sentry program. Unfortunately, the "no healthy, wild wolf" sound byte is often misstated with the word "killing" replaced by "attacking". This is not true. Wild wolves have attacked humans in North America. That's why we always add, "This doesn't mean that wolves have absolutely never killed a human or that they never will. After all, humans never cut a deal with wolves to leave us alone." So how much danger do wolves pose to people? Should we steer clear of dark forests inhabited by wolves? Are the reasons given for aggressive wolves more an apologia than an explanation? Is it reasonable to think that wolves will eventually kill a human?
Before reviewing recent wolf attacks in North America, it should be noted that, outside of North America, wolves have killed humans. Tales about massive wolf packs devastating caravans of Russian troikas (as in Willa Cather's My Antonia) are undoubtedly fiction. During their brief reign of terror in France from 1764 to 1767, the infamous Beasts of Gervaudan killed at least sixty-four people-but it's been well established that these animals were hybrids not wolves. Most of the deaths blamed on wolves in southern and central Europe and in central Asia are attributable to hybrids or rabid wolves.
However, in the Indian state of Uttar Pradesh, from March to October 1996 and March to April 1997, a wolf or wolves killed or injured as many as seventy-four Indian children, almost all of them under the age of ten. The deaths occurred among children playing or relieving themselves on the outskirts of small villages. There were also reports of a wolf entering huts, though it sounds as if no children were harmed.
[font=""]Recent Attacks in North America[/font]
In Ontario, Canada where thousands of people visit Algonquin Provincial Park-and many of them come to see or hear wolves-five people have been bit in the past twelve years. During August 1996, a wolf dragged 12-year-old Zachariah Delventhal from his sleeping bag. This particular wolf, prior to attacking Zachariah, had entered campsites and taken things such as a backpack, tennis shoe and other human items. As we've been in contact with the Delventhal family, we can let Zachariah describe what happened. He wrote the following in November 1996:
"The scariest night of my life� was the last night of a terrific 10-day camping trip at Algonquin Provincial Park in Ontario. We were exhausted and wanted to get out the next morning quickly so we decided to sleep under the stars. I remember dreaming that me, my mom, and my dad were walking through the woods. Then I felt pressure on my head and the woods started flying past. I awoke and still felt the pressure, but there was a new feeling of pain. I screamed, immediately the pressure released and the pain lessened. I opened my eyes-nothing but dark forest. I had been dragged six feet and I knew it was an animal mouth that did it. I yelled, 'Something bit me!' My mother came and held my sleeping bag to my face. Then my dad got up and started yelling. I got scared as he disappeared into the underbrush but he came back. I asked, 'What was it?' Then came two terrifying words, 'A wolf.' I immediately started to pull away from where I was dragged, I freaked. It was so scary and confusing at the same time. I didn't want to get eaten by such a strong animal. As for confusing, think about this-I had been told wolves don't attack people and here I was practically killed by one. My list of wounds is extensive. I had over 80 stitches to close the many cuts, my nose was broken in five places, I am missing a piece of my ear, my gums, and my tear duct and cheekbone were punctured. After all this, don't be scared to go in the woods, don't think of wolves as killers. The chances of getting attacked are so slim; I can't get a hold of the fact that I was attacked. My parents were wrong when they said wolves don't attack people, but wolves almost never do."
Two years later, on September 25, 1998, another Algonquin wolf circled a little girl and despite blasts of pepper spray, didn't leave until the child entered a trailer. Two days after that, a nineteen-month-old boy sat playing in the middle of camp, with his parents twenty feet away. The father thought he saw a dog emerge from the brush. He turned away for a moment and when he looked back, he saw his son in the jaws of a wolf. The wolf held the boy for a moment and then tossed him three feet. A local newspaper quoted the parents, "It wasn't hit and run. He hit him [the infant] and then it was wait and see. He [the wolf] circled the picnic table a number of times before he was scared off enough to leave." The infant received two stitches for minor injuries.
On April 26, 2000, a six and nine year old boy cut down small trees as they played at being loggers on the outskirts of a logging camp near Yakutat in southeastern Alaska. Upon seeing a wolf, the children fled. The wolf took down six-year-old John Stenglein and bit him on the back, legs and buttocks. A neighbor's golden retriever rushed to the rescue but the wolf drove the dog back and then set upon John again. The boy's cries brought adults who drove the wolf away. John received seven stitches and five surgical closure staples.
During the evening of July 1, 2000, on the shores of Vargas Island, British Columbia, a wolf entered the campsite of a kayaking group. They chased the wolf away. Members of the group also spotted another wolf that apparently hung back from the bolder wolf. At 2 a.m., 23-year-old Scott Langevin awoke with a small dark wolf tugging on his sleeping bag. "I yelled to try to spook it off, and I kicked at it," Scott said. "It backed up a bit, but then it just lunged on top of me, and it started biting away through my sleeping bag." He rolled in an effort to situate the fire between him and the wolf, but the animal jumped on his back and bit him about the head. The noise woke his friends and they drove the wolf away. The wounds to Scott's head required 50 stitches.
In all of the previous incidents, the offending wolves were killed. Autopsies indicated healthy animals.
"I pulled these story's up to clear things up for some people. After the wolf has killed off most game. it will come for us."
12-22-2006, 08:01 AM
#60
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,429
RE: Wolf, to shoot or not to shoot, that is the question?
Let me say this,
If you are a member of SCI great, If not join immediately. Now that You are a SCI Member get in contact withyour Delegate that is going to the National convention in Reno, its coming up in just a couple of weeks. Ask that delegate to support any movement that is brought up about SCI getting involved in the fight to delist the wolves. I know for a fact that it will be brought up because my delegate has assured me that he will.
Now, I know some of you don't "like" SCI and oppose some of the things that they support but you need to put that aside. SCI is the only organization that we as hunters have that has the resources to take the battle to them. They fight the Anti's constantly and win. SCI has Lawyers on staff that are some of the best in washington. If anyone can get this battle turned in the hunters favor its them. Not to mention that they fight everyday to keep are hunting heritage alive.
If you are a member of SCI great, If not join immediately. Now that You are a SCI Member get in contact withyour Delegate that is going to the National convention in Reno, its coming up in just a couple of weeks. Ask that delegate to support any movement that is brought up about SCI getting involved in the fight to delist the wolves. I know for a fact that it will be brought up because my delegate has assured me that he will.
Now, I know some of you don't "like" SCI and oppose some of the things that they support but you need to put that aside. SCI is the only organization that we as hunters have that has the resources to take the battle to them. They fight the Anti's constantly and win. SCI has Lawyers on staff that are some of the best in washington. If anyone can get this battle turned in the hunters favor its them. Not to mention that they fight everyday to keep are hunting heritage alive.
