AlaskaMagnum

The wolves are coming and there is nothing you can do about it. One wolf already killed near Idaho Springs, and now a sighting near Walden. It is just a matter of time.

Your best bet is to hope they increases to manageable populations quickly so you can hunt and trap them.

I don't know about the wolves, but I like girzzly bears, and would love to see more hunting opportunities. There is nothing like facing down the great bear when you are out there along.

ELKampMaster

James,

Aint it a M*'er when one realizesthe hunting andWestern rural community (both minorities) have almost been played right into the"point of no return"of a very well thought out and well constructed chain of events? There were massive appointments to the USFW, USFS, and BLM during the Clinton years and those folks march to an entirely different drummer that previous generations, a drummer that is not sympathetic to the hunting cause at all. There have been massive retirments of the old corps both on time and early retirements (the later because they couldn't stomach what they saw coming down the pike), and these "new" folks are rising thru the ranks fast. The anti-hunters gotta love it all right, it is partly their hopes and plans thatare coming to fruition. Many of them firmly believe that hunting will be "eradicated" within another generation and they are hard at it to make sure thingsstay on or ahead of schedule. While this may sound "radical" (remember the Hinton, Alberta story), actions speak louder than words. Why are we seeing federal agencies head off in one direction when common sense lies in another? Actions speak louder than words or promises.

I believe that is an accurate prediction of what will happen food chain wise. However,your posthints that ranchers are going to risk felony time to single handedly stem the tide. These are mostly family men with much to lose. While they may pot a few on the side (SSS), I doubt they will rise to the level necessary to remedy the situation.

And so it goes. Just a few more years. That is all that is needed. Justa few more years,and then with the attainment of acritical mass, the chain of events will be in motion. And inspite the of allowing future "token harvesting" so folks will feel good about it, things will roll forward. Now imagine this.... a Clinton-esque president is elected to the Executive Branch (which has direct control over the USFS, USFW, and BLM; except funding)in 2008. A really distinct possibility with the way Iraq, the Patriot Act infringements, and corruption are playing out in American's minds.

Elk hunting is a lot like a chess game. Some times you learn the most when you get beat and then you make sure you cover that base next year.
In real chess, I've learned a lot playing folks who beat me like a drum and then I had the benefit of applying those lessons to future games.

Problem is, on this deal, there is likely to only be one game played....
Photo safari anyone? My camera is better than your camera. The minimum camera forelk should be a "whatever"...... don't quite carry the same salt.

That's 'bout all I have to say about that. We'll see in another 2 years (2008).

muley69

Excellent post EKM. The federal government is slowly stealing game management from the states and turning it over to the whackos. If this persist, in 20-30 years elk will be managed by wolves, and hunters who once bought tags OTC, will be in drawning if there is a season at all. From a rational approach, can we ask why the wolf was re-introduced? What is the purpose, what is the end? There is no reason to re-establish the wolf. What are we supposed to do next, tear out all the highways, bridges, buildings etc? This fallacy of "returning the environment to nature" is silly. Heres a question, to what point in history do we return it to? Pre-civil war, pre-Colombus? If we have technology to bring back dinosaurs why not do that? At some point we need to move foward and except the idea that this isn't a place for the wolf anymore, and that there is no reason other than the appeasment of environmental whackos.

Hunter_59

muley, that's a dangerous way of thinking IMO! When will it be timeto "except (sp) the idea" that there is no place for the grizzly anymore, or the cougar, or the black bear for that matter? I think the feds are doing a terrible job of re-introduction of the wolf but I do believe the wolf belongs there in a manageable population. Sure they will prey on elk and deer but if the wolf population is kept in check with hunting then the population of prey species can withstand it. The elk population now needs to be fed on feed grounds to survive the winters. We have forced them to live in areas that historically held few elk, as written in thejournals of Lewis and Clark.

I don't think it's a question of returning to acertain point inhistory as muchas it is an effort to keepall the "pieces to the puzzle"! At what point inthe futuredo our grandchildren say that we "screwed up" by notkeeping morepieces of the puzzle!It's easy for us humans to bash the predators, it's beenprogrammed in our brains. We used to killbirds of preybecause they killed our chickens!We still killsnakes because they may be poisonous! We killspiders because they are the cause of nightmares! We kill sharks because they bite people!Etc. etc. etc....

muley69

Hunter59, with all due respect, did they feds dump the wolf in your back yard? When did the USFWS transplant wolves to central Illinois? I'm here, I see and hear themcritters every time I hit the woods. Who are you to tell me I have to have wolves here because you back there want to know they're out here? Have you seen what has happened in Gardiner, MT?heck withthe wolf, we have lived without them for many many years, and we don't need the worthless mutts here now. We sure don't want or need any Grizzlies in the Bitterroot range either. Like it or not, man is the Apex predator and at the top of the food chain and nothing is ever going to change that. What may change is our ability to exercise our position on the food chain. You still have failed to give a valad answer as to why we need to re-introduce wolves and why we need then here.

bigbulls

Why don't you guys quit blaming the wolf and start directing your anger to the people that are the real cause of the problem. A manageable population of wolves would not be any problem. People in charge of this letting them go unchecked is the real problem.

And BTW, man is not the apex predator on this planet. If anything we are simply equal with all the other apex predators and we see them as competition for food. Which just goes to show your selfishness toward wildlife.

The dinosaur was not killed off by man like the wolf was. The dinosaur became extinct due to natural causes. Apples and oranges.

This place isn't for the wolf any more? At some point in the worlds future this place ins't going to be for any wildlife any more. At somepoint there is going to be too many people taking up too much space to have any wildlife roaming around as competition. Does that mean that we should just accept that there isn't any room for any wild animal in our future and kill them all now. That's pretty much what happened to the wolf. There wasn't any room for the wolf and man to coexist so we killed the wolf off.

It's amazing how the native Americans held such a great respect for all of wildlife and somehow were able to coexist with them but we want to kill them off so we can have everything to our selfish selves. Oh, but we killed off most of the Native Americans too didn't we? And the buffalo, and the elk, and the deer, etc... Seems that we killed off pretty much every animal that we ever came into contact with. I sense a common theme here.


Again, it's really just sad the way some of you think and I truely feel sorry for you all.

tangozulu

To fear wolves is laughable.
I have been around wolves my entire life. Yesterday my wife and 6 month old baby and I went for a walk on some frozen skidoo trails around home. We enjoyed seeing many tracks of squirrels and hares, also lynx, martin and coyotes. We saw both moose tracks and several of the wonderful beasts themselves. We also followed the fresh tracks of 5-6 wolves as they checked out the moose.We seem to have lots of wolves and game too. This is not unusual, but the norm in most wilderness situation.
By the way hunting wolves is a heck of a lot of fun to boot and hopefully you in the western states will be able to find that out for yourselves soon.
By the way our 90 lb husky along for the trip posed a much greater danger to us than the wolves.

racowboy

Now, that's an interesting attitude to have about a man who was killed and partially eaten by wolves. When you die and go to heaven, why don't you look up Kenton Carnegie and see if he would like to have a real nice laugh with you about the wolves! I've been with an ambulance service for over thirty years now and the most common comment from patients (if they can talk), wether it be an amputation, fracture, or a bear bite is "Gee whiz! I just can't believe this happened to me!" I fear for your children.

James B

Tangozulu. You said the magic phrase. Hunting wolves is fun. Thats not an option here yet. Its the wolves 10 and the hunter zero. Like BB said wolves would be fine if they are controled in numbers. That may or may not happen before its to late for big game populations.

Its not a fear of wolves, its a fear of out of control wolves wrecking the elk and deer populations. Its clear as hell thats its happening RIGHT NOW.

EKM. you are right, ranchers probably won't risk everything to control wolves but if it helps, and thats a big if, they will be outspoken group for change and an will help hunters with this cause. Its true also about the new generation of G&F. One more Clinton in charge is the last thing we need.[:@]

muley69

To say that man is not at the top of the food chain is laughable, and shows a total lack of understanding of the natural world. Man is soooo far at the top of the food chain that no other animal even compares. BB your theory that man will leave nothing left in nature is one of the stupidest most vain comments I have ever heard. We are but one big rock from outer space from being wiped from the face of the planet. Yes BB, we tried to kill off everything even the indians! What a crock. Has it occurred to you that animals and indians are still here? Despite all your nonsensicle ranting you completely failed to provide a valid reason why the wolf should have been re-introduced here.