R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I beleieve that hunting with Guides is not really Hunting!!!!!!!
Have a wake call and leading you all, day is not hunting!!!!!!!
It's just shooting!!!!!!!!!!!!! Look over their!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Private Land Hunting for the most part is, we only have a few people that hunt here, or we've been raising this one over here, let me shake the FEED pan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scoring Guided & Private Land harvested animals should not be allowed Boone Crockett or Pope & Young!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or should they be a club that only excepts Non-Guided Public Land animals ONLY?????????????????

Bowedark

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Don't tell us! Tell them!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

OK then, what if the law REQUIRES you to hire a guide or outfitter? Places like that exist,,,a guy who would rather save money and have a DIY hunt, but is required by state law to hire someone to be his guide.

Are you saying he's not a hunter because he's caught in the middle?

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

i would not hunt that area! just my .02

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Really manboy???

Ever wanted to hunt Grizzly, sheep or mountain goats in Alaska? Gotta hire a licensed guide or have a resident family member along with you.

Bowedark, would you restrict these people from entering their animals in B&C or P&Y?

I agree that hunting with guides is not hunting as our ancestors did it but no one is forcing any one to hunt this way but with a few exceptions for safety reasons.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

I don't know what hunting on private land has to do with anything. A game farm I can see why that may not be real hunting but many of us hunt on private land. In the unit where I hunt, there is no public land. I don't give a hang about the record books but for those who do, I can't see why just hunting private land should count against them. Hunting with a guide? Darn right thats still hunting.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Should they be Guide & Private Land animals in their own class of Boone and Crocket and P&Y. Or a class just for Non-Guided Public Land animals.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Bowedark,
IMO, your position is quite provincial and myopic. I would posit that hunting with a guide or hunting on private ground, either one, is still very muchhunting.

I would recommend that you consider getting out and further away from home, OR
Earning more disposable income, OR
Both, as.....

There is a whole world (literally) of hunting out there that cannot be effectively (or in some cases legally) accomplished without private land and/or guides.I regret thatyou appear to be in whatseems tobe "such a rut."

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

What does private land have to do with anything??????? Where I hunt, in Upper Michigan, we have 200 acres of...ready for this....PRIVATE LAND!!! The thing about our land though, is that it is bordered by over 3,000 acres or state land without any access unless you care to parachute in. So you're telling me, that if I kill a buck on my land, then i'm not a hunter, but if I walk across onto the state land and kill that same buck, then I'm Daniel Boone in the flesh? I gotta say your position is completely without merit, not even taking into account the situations where a guide is a legal requirement. Before you got and make these preposterous statements about what is and what is not hunting, I would suggest you take a moment to reflect on what you position truly is.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

It sounds like the opinion of someone that does not have access to private land and can't afford to hire an outfitter and is jealous of those of us that can.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Bowdark, you cannot possible believe what you just wrote. While I agree that money is becomming a problem in the hunting world, class warfare isn't going to help anything. A better position for you to take is to do what is necessary for you to get in a financial position to enjoy your own private property. If I had 200 acres to hunt, I would, without apology to anyone. I am fortunate in that I really have no need for such acreage as I live in an area that is relatively lightly populated with a large volume of public hunting land. I have more money than a lot of folks where I live, and less then a lot of folks where I live. I don't feel sorry for those with less, nor do I feel envious of those with more, it's up to me to achieve the finacial goals that I have. If somebody is traveling out of state to hunt, espcially true in the west, then an outfitter is a resonable proposition. To say that they didn't do their own scouting is a weak argument, as it is often not feasable to do such scouting.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Living here in British Columbia I have access to endless acres of crown land and approx. 3000 acres of private land to hunt whitetails, mulies, elk, moose, turkey etc. The private property is a mix of farm land and wood lots surrounded by crown land. In fact the main area I huntmy elk borders the U.S.A. I do not see why an animal I harvest on this land would be looked upon as an unfair advantage over everyone else. There are no high fences, the animals are free to range in and out of the private areas as they please....and they do. Hunters hunt the crown land adjacent to the private lands and our neighbours to the South hunt their land. Although I agree your chances on private land may be slightly better than public to take an animal, it is still by no means a guaranteed kill. Do your homework, make up a portfolio with all of your personal information and approach some land owners to gain access to their private land and your opinion may change!

Everyone have a successfull, safe, season!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

I would agree in so much as killing an animal is typically tougher on public than private and for that reason it could take more skill to kill the same buck simply for the fact of preassure. As far as the guide situation, unless your dad never took you out and showed you how to do what you do, unless you just stepped out into the woods and learned everything on your own without any help, then we've all been guided at some point. That being said I have had a lot less help in learning how to hunt than a lot of my friends and they will give me props for that because they started at age 12 with their dads leading them to the animal and telling them to shoot while I basically learned by trial and error or from friends in high school. I think I know what your point is but the way you phrased the question has obviously made some people mad.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

yes bigbulls, i will not hunt with a guide, now as far as someone saying "try over there,or maybe here" that is fine. i just don't want someone holding my hand, and saying shoot that one. and one other thing paying someone to find an animal for me is out of the ? not ever going to happen, and i don't care what animal it is or how much funds i have!
and so i may never hunt alaska, well i guess i could i would just have to talk to a friend up there. but not really that interested in it! i will say that not all private land is the same, and not all public land is the same. some public land around here gets very little pressure while others have people all over it.
so as differant record books it would be hard to make fair all across the board. i beleive your personal record book is way more important. to me well last year i shot a 8x7 muley with rifle....big deal. this year i will not even hunt with a rifle, i probly won't shot as nice as a deer. but i will have a better time anyway.that is more important to me.
and i like the challenge of national forest deer, or elk, i have seen lots of animals on STATE land and they don't act near the same as national forest or grassland, or blm. animals. they just see the rancher so much they get where they are not assoiating people with danger. some people need tamer deer to hunt though, so if that is what they want go for it!

just my .02

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

bowedark, this is a topic that has been hashed over before on this forum. It seems to me that if you have the money to hunt"exotic" areas away from home then the idea of a guided hunt is ok. If you don't have the money then it's not legitimate. You are painting yourself into a corner here with your ideas. I believe, in the future, if you develop the means to pursue adream hunt in anexotic location, that you along with most people on this forum would jump at the chance.

Just speaking from my perspective, I have always dreamed ofan elk hunt in the wilderness areas of NW Wyoming. Being from Illinois, therefore as a non-resident of Wyoming, it is required by state law that I hire aguide liscensed by the state of Wyoming to hunt this area. I would much rather go it alone or with a hunting partner but the State of Wyoming will not allow it. I could care less about the recordbooks, my dream hunt is to hunt this wilderness area that was visitedby mountain men like John Colter and Jim Bridger.Too much emphasis is placed on the record books! Enjoy the hunt, forget the record books! I've hunted whitetails for more than 20 years and have never made an entry into the record books.That's not what I'm out there for!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

bowedark I think you are just trying to troll and cause controversy. If not then you are just showing how truly ignorant you are! Ok let's remove ALL non-public land and guide assisted animals from the books, boy that's gonna be one short read. The books wouldn't be two pages in length if that was the case.

Do you realize that about 95% of all whitetails live on private land? With your communistic ideology we could effectively eliminate whitetails from the books. The majority of antelope are likewise found on private land, might as well strike them from the rolls. I would venture to say that a large percentage of ALL animals are on private land in most areas of the continent. The hunter and the private land owner are THE greatest conservationists on the globe. BUT you public land "weekend warriors" are such great givers and put so much back into the land, yeah you're right you guys deserve it all. In fact, screw it, let's just make the books ALL for you public land Bubba's who are so good and kill so many animals (without any help of course) that you will FLOOD the books and make the other un-necessary.

BUT WAIT, except in some locations in the west and the far north, very very very few book class animals are taken from public land. Why is that? Is it because you guys are so selective? LMAO we all know the answer too that one. Listen too opening day on your local state hunting area and you will swear you are in Iraq! Is it because you guys kill sooooooooo many heads of game that you don't see the justification for putting them in the books? Nope can't be that, most public landers have never even seen a book head in the wild. It must be because they simply DON'T EXIST THERE in the first place because of overharvest and itchy trigger fingers? Also, add too the fact that government agencies can't manage much more than a Koolaide stand, much less a trophy herd of XYZ on 100,000 acres of land. Hmmmmmmmm I am seeing a pattern here.

I suspect you think your best buddy "da guvament" should just TAKE everything from everyone and give it too folks such as yourself huh? Well you better study some history about most governments and realize that the ones that have "everything for everyone" is that they typically don't allow ANYTHING too all but a select few. There were very few "public hunters" in the former Soviet Union because for one, they weren't allowed to use "government land" for such desires. And two, there were very few private gun owners at the "common man level".

So bowedark do us a favor and SHUT YOUR DAMNED MOUTH!!! Keep you orange on and your head down because that guy over the next hill probably just bought that 7400 Remington with a Tasco on it lastnight (even had it bore sighted before he left the store!) and is pretty sure he heard something walking in your general direction! ;)
RA

ps
I agree with Stubbs, I believe you are simply jealous so you want to vindicate your own plight and therefore must belittle those fortunate enough to have what you desire but aren't able to attain yet. Relax, with a lil hard work and determination you to can hunt and enjoy the great outdoors on some quality places. But first you must learn to keep your mouth shut or you will NEVER get the first invite from anyone in the first place!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

hunter-59, in wyoming you could hunt the wilderness without paying a guide. u must have a resident to the state of wyoming take you. i you really want an elk hunt, after 20 years of whitetails, than p.m. me i would be glad to help you. oh, don't worry about seeing "book" animals. i have killed a 339 5/8 6x6 bull on public land. and i have got a 7x5 muley and a 8x7 muley. both my huntn buddies got book class deer last year. and right now i have seen 2 pope and young bulls, and 4 whitetails and our season has not even started yet!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

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Boy you hit that right on the head.[/blockquote]

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

I do think people are buying deer/elk And I do not think that is right. Here in Montana there is many places you can go hunt for 10,000 and kill a 380+ bull.What a crock of crap. They grow a public animal than get payed to hunt it.People like Ted Turner suck butt.I do not think that the animals should be alowed in the books with animale that are not payed for.

I do get to hunt in a lot of difrant states. I do not pay a guide or ever buy an animal.So far I have done very well on my own or with a partner.I do go in blind a lot. I just take the 1st day or 2 to figger out where the animals are and what is the best way to hunt them.

The only time I will use a guide if there is no way I can hunt for that animal.[like AK grizz] I will hunt them in the next 2 to 3 years.It has been hard to find a good guy that would bow hunt them.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Well said RA!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Bowedark,
As for hunting on private land, here in Georgia, if you don't own land, lease land from and individual or company, you would have to hunt WMAs'. Most farmers and other land owners lease their land to pay property taxes, control the animals from crop destruction, etc., etc. In my part time job I'm constantly visiting farms and tracts of timber for various purposes and I sometimes ask for permission to hunt. If they have it leased to a hunter or group (which it normally takes a group to afford the price of the lease), then they won't give permission to hunt. There's 10 of us that has had 1000 acres leased for 21 years. In light of this, are the game animals we take off this lease not to be considered equal toWMAs',etc.

dog1

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

This will be my 38th year hunting big game. I've hunted on State, Federal and private land. I'll gone into the Lee_Metcalfe with two friends and rooted out elk. Ditto the Clearwater National Forest and the Allagash in Maine. I've swatted bugs in North Carolina in a treestand during September. I've also sat in a treestand next to a barn not sixty yards from a farm house with a bow in my hands.
I've been guided and I've done it myself. Not once, under any of these circumstances, did I ever think that I wasn't hunting by the rules of fair chase. The claim that hunting with guides is hunting is poppy-cock.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

The last line of my previous post should read "that hunting with guides isn't hunting is poppycock. I'm glad I clarified that. It was worth repeating.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Its at least part hunting and at worst nothing but waiting and shooting at an opportunity someone else put you on. That said, there are definitely guided hunts out here in the west where the only real function the guide provides, is as outfitter, wrangler etc.Those guided hunts are great because usually they are conducted wayyyyyyy baaaaack in the mountains which without a horse, you'd never be able to get in, or out. Knocking on some door of a ranch and having the proprietor waalk you out to the most likely stand or blind area is not hunting.It is waiting and shooting. Then they fix up your game meat for you....sickening. Or, even worse being driven out to the blind in a vehicle. Unless you are disabled and carrying the appropriate licenses for such, that aint hunting. You know your hunting when at the end of every day you barely have the energy to crawl into bed. I'm a purist that's all. You will never convince me otherwise. But I totally repect your rights to define hunting as you wish. For me it will always be about getting away from any ranches etc, and getting lonely with maybe a couple of good pals. I can guide myself thank God. Now, when I head up to Alaska I will use an outfitter to fly me in and pick me up. But I bring my own maps GPS, equipment etc...And up there, as well as many States in the lower 48, there are excellent guide/outfitter services where you are really in the wilderness, plains, foothills etc. they are a neccessity mainly for transportation not food plots...I could go on and on.The meaning of huntingthese days between the outdoor TV and commercialism/trophy growing makes it more like farming livestock than hunting.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Well said ,Slow!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

PLEASE!!!!

I think the folks who judge guided hunts so harshly don't know what they are talking about.Have they ever hunted with a buddy. Did you both glass together. What if you buddy spotted a nice elk, and you shot it. Is that any different than a guide? I think some folks have the misconception that these guides know exactly where the game is and its like shooting fish in a barrel. BS!!!!! I personally don't concern myself with what other think.I don't hunt to impress others. Think what you want of me, I don't mind.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

a little testy aren't you there Red.

Seems like many assume that if you don't hunt their way (on both sides of this fence), there must be a reason why it's not possible for you b/c if it was possible, surely you would hunt like they do it. Maybe it's just a personal preference. Some guys (regardless of their income) like to do things themselves as far as the work associated with a backcountry hunt. It gives them satisfaction. Much like doin the work to restore an old classic car even if you got the money to pay someone else to do it.Others might want to be free of theencumberances that accompany a extended hunt so that they can concentrate on the beauty of their surroundings, sharing moments w/friends that they see all to infrequently, or relaxing and enjoying as much peaceful time away from the ordinary stress in their lives. sometimes there may be only one way to hunt, given a particular situation (AK). Some may have more options when it comes to hunting then others. This may come by their finanacial situation, or where they live, or their self reliance, but any person that enjoys hunting, can enjoy it however limited their own options are..that's what makes it so great. No matter what other benefits hunting brings(meat, scenery, memories, wall decorations,game population control, etc)I would bet that 99% of hunters hunt because it's fun and they enjoy it. It is this enjoyment that we should concentrate and not try to "one up" each other (which occurs often and yet is virtually impossible in the virtual society here). If the animal can get away..clean away, then it is hunting. How the rest happens is up to you. Your the one that has to live with the way you present yourself (in the real world) If people concentrated on the limited time that we all haveto enjoyoutdoors instead of if an animal is "book worthy" in the first place, there would be less division among a group already in the minority.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Hunting is a personal and should remain that way. Hunt where you like to hunt and hunt an animal that fulfills your personal goal, be it the freezer or a something like killing a little bigger deer each year.
All of the record books are full of guided animals and high-fenced animals. Public land or natural private land will rarely be able to compete with high-fenced, year round fed, mineral supplemented, genetically enhanced deer. Leave the record books to the managed ranches and those with more money than time. Record books are a wonderful promotional gimmick
for the sport.
There is nothing morally wrong with shooting a Booner off a corn feeder, at a high fenced managed ranch, out of some else's stand. The deer is likely to have a nickname and an ear tag, but who cares. It is adeveloped asset, no different than a steer.
If someone wants to do this and put it in the book -GOOD!
This type of hunting is not what I choose to pursue. I think it's a stretch to call it hunting, but...
Think of the money -the TV shows, the ranches, the guides, the catalogs full of gear. This type of hunting attracts the armchair outsdoorsmen who have large expendable incomes and homes in the suburbs. These guys are the massivepolitical and monetary support that will keep hunting legal and viable.
Those of us who like to get into a little deeper level of hunting can be guides, or just strike off into the National forest. Also most "armchair hunters" eventually move on. A lot of them will tell you that theraghorn from the National forestis really their favorite trophy - overthe 350 bull from the game ranch.
Yes, the ideas are different, but we need to get along for the sake of the sport. If the only hunters are those who are willing to go it alone in the wilderness for weeks at a time to get an animal, then we will be a small and lonely group. A group that will soon be extinct.
Hunters, shooters, fishermen, sportsmen, and even farmers need to stay united and not be divided by issues like game ranches, archery vs. rifle, feeder hunting, etc.
Let's not force our views on each other. Respectfully disagree - and hunt your own way.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Very good advice Deercorn!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Deercorn you show how much you know about this topic. Both B&C and P&Y do NOT allow animals taken in any contained areas (that even includes a 100k acre fenced in area in TX). Where do you think the notion of "Fair Chase" was established? It was established by Teddy Roosevelt and the others who created B&C in the first place!!!

Know whereof you speaketh before you doeth... ;)
RA

ps
Hillbillyhunter you mentioned: "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors isntead of if an animal is "book worthy" in the first place, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..." I think you could also phrase that as, "...If people concentrated on the limited time that we all have to enjoy outdoors instead of what another hunter is or isn't doing the same thing as themselves, or if someone killed something bigger than they did, or if another hunter gets to hunt better locations than himself, there would be less division among a group already in the minority..." ;)

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Red, that's for the Head Hunters not for the Frezzer Hunters.
If a hunter wants a B&C or P&Y that's his business and I wish
them all the luck in the world. I believe a man has the right to
hunt the way he can afford and the way he wants to. Who are we
to judge how we should hunt or how to do it?

Guys go and do your thing and enjoy yourselves and the creation
God gave you!

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Red-You may be right about the record books. But the jist of what Deercorn is saying is pretty right on. Thats what I was trying to say as well. You should have the right to hunt however you see fit as long as it benefits hunting over-all. There is a lot of "trickle down economics" from the armchair types and feed-lot ranches sporting well fed genetically engineered animals for trophies etc. And if you think that's hunting (with or without fences)-God Bless Ya!! Guides are fine. I'd like to be one every now and then. But where I hunt a guide is more like a friend that just happens to hunt a heckuva lot and knows where the game is that particular day-maybe. Someone I'd definitely hire if I went to Montana, Wyoming or Idaho wilderness if I could afford it. But I'd still research the area fully on my own before I went. Interesting though, when my pals and I go hunting we all hunt alone. Sometimes we communicate with walky-talkys, but only at designated times and only if we are not working an animal. Guides are fine, I'm not really harping on the guide thing here at all. Rather, the TV ranches where they drive you out to a blind, drop you off and say good luck......the very word h-u-n-t means to go find,look for something. Kind of like hide and go-seek. Well, if one person in that game always just gets to hide....would it be fair...or fun? To me it was always the most fun to seek rather than hide. Most of the fun of hunting for me is in the preparation and the seeking and finding. And, finding place on public land that are overlooked or thought of as difficult because you might have to walk.I thank God for every type of Law abiding hunter though, for many of the reasons outlined in Deercorns post.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Thanks for the correction Red.
I think my point is clear. I know of 2 individuals who signed up last year for different south Texas trophy whitetail hunts. They both were shown videos and pictures of deer - literally nicknamed - and were asked which one they wanted to chase. Both of them ended up shooting the deer they chose, bowhunting, at feeders.
High fence or not, these are raised deer, watched as they mature, and harvested when ripe.

These guys are what most of the record bookhunters of the future will be.

Suits me, as you noted, I know and care little about the books and will never submit an animal to them. It's just not important to me.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

I hunt private land because there is ussually less hunting pressure. This doesn't mean the deer come waltzing right in or that another hunter might not mess up your set-up. It's the same as public land hunting, but you know it's the same few other hunters in the area, and you can coordinate with them. To say it's not hunting is idiotic, and juvinile. As far as guides go, that's hunting too. Maybe some of these guides practices need a little refinement, but that's where each individual hunter has to decide what he will accept. I look at it this way. Scouting is part of hunting, but for whatever reason (ussually distance) one can't get out and scout, so a guide is hired to do it. Now, in some cases the area being hunted is so large that even if you could scout it yourself it would take you a couple months to figure out what the deer are doing. ( I know, one good deer trail is all it takes to fill the freezer. Some people hold out for a racker. It's their choice.)

Now. If I owned 500,000 acres in Texas, or Kansas, and I wanted to shoot a big mature deer, and wanted my guests, and my friends to do the same what would I do? I think I would probably plant some food plots, suplimented with feeders, and make rules about what constituted a mature deer. I wouldn't worry about fences, the deer probably wouldn't leave my propery, it's big. After a couple years I can only imagine that there would be a lot of big, mature bucks on the property. Between me, my father and the handful of deer hunting friends we have( about 5 )the pressure would be minimum. Sound good? It's called managing your land, and this is a very basic look at it. It's also what most South Texas ranches do, but they allow hunters on for a fee, and hire guides to assure that the huntershavegood chance toharvest deer.

Anyway,.....

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

I think hunting with a guide is still hunting and here's why. Here's a question;If I take a 14 year old kidwho has never hunted in his\her life and I put that kid on a deer and he\she connects did that child go hunting? Finding game is only one aspect of hunting. Just because someone else knows an area better and puts you on game doesn't mean you didn't hunt. Yes maybe you hunted with a handicap but you are still hunting. One aspect of hunting was done for you. Anytime you have to sight in your rifle or tune your bow and you are in the woods, fields, mountains chasing wild animals where there are no fences and you are the one who makes the shot you are hunting.

Private property doesn't even matter. Hunting private property is easier than public ground usually simply because of pressure and/or management practices. But it's still hunting.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

YES!!!!! took the words right out of my mouth. it is just plain idiotic to say that hunting on private land in general isn't hunting. in some cases this may be true with high fenced crap but where i hunt in ky there aren't fences other than an old barbed wire fence but it's still private land. by no means is hunting on private land a sure thing. i've been hunting on my family's property in ky for years and i just got my first one last year and i had to work for it to.

bowedark's ideas on guiding may have some good intentions but they are extremely one sided and definately don't look at the big picture or at certain situations where things are different. but that could just be me. but saying that managing land and such on private land should prohibit animals from being entered in a record book is a bad idea unless of course it's the pen raised type stuff. ..... well i'm done for the time being.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

There is a VAST array of differences between one end of the spectrum to the other on this subject. From the high fenced game ranch where the owner says shoot that one when he lifts his head out of the grain feeder. To the western rancher who has a few thousand acres bordering several hundred thousand public acres who drives you around the ranch then gives you the keys to the ranch p/u and says we been seein a big un down by that water tank in the north canyon. I had a chance to hunt Bison VERY reasonably and passed because they had gathered the bison into a pasture of about 150acres and you got shoot them based on a size/price basis. It wasnt my thing.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

The problem with the most stubborn of posters on this topic is from the minority that equate hunting a quality private "free range" area with a guide is no different than a canned hunt in a 5 acre pen. There is a DISTINCT difference, but for a few who know they will never have that chance yet secretly wish so, they must convince themselves that they are better for dodging the orange army each weekend on public land!

I have never hunted on a high fence area, but have hunted on a large ranch in south TX (large by most standards, but at 50k acres it is small by south TX standards) and the place had one border that was 12 miles long and the average width of the ranch was over 3miles wide. The majority of the deer on that place NEVER would even see a fence if there was one there. Besides, the fence isn't to "contain" the deer as most who have never been there think. It is to keep poor genes out and to be able to keep some sort of semblence of a proper herd number and to also keep poachers/trespassers out.

Anyone who knows anything about REALLY hunting large, quality, free range places in TX and KS know that mature animals are rarely taken around feeders. They are just as smart as bucks anywhere else, does your typical 3 year old 8ptr saunter out onto a foodplot in broad daylight after opening weekend? If the TV shows have done anything, they have given a bad rap too ALL commerical hunting locales on the continent. I agree, a penned animal is NOT hunting, but to equate them with being guided on a quality free range (or even a large high fenced area) is just not the same. But I realize I aint gonna change any opinions for the naysayers anymore than they are gonna change my opinion!
RA

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

manboy, read your own state laws about non-resident hunting. It is required by Wyoming law to hire a licensed guide, "registered" with the Wyoming outfitters organization to be able to hunt "wilderness areas". I cannot hire a friend to guide! That's what makes it so difficult to hunt Wyoming wilderness areas for a non-resident.

RE: R Guided & Private Land , Really Hunting????????????
 

Good old "bowdark" had this very same thread going on a local BB here in WI. He's a pot stirring individual...no doubt. Although he was under a different "alias", as many people like to pound their chests on public forums...must make them feel good I guess?