Ongoing First Shot Inconsistency - Ideas??
01-06-2011, 07:13 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
I spent 3 years trying to get around this problem,the last two were with Blackhorn.
I used to sight in by cleaning every shot while sighting in when I used 777 there was not much choice.
Last summer I finally work out a solution, it seems like overkill but it works for me.
I swab out the barrel with a 50/50 mix of #9 and alcohol fire 3 primers swab out again drying each time then fire 3 more primers and load.
This allows me to depend on the first shot hunting to be right on even at long distance. I use Montana X bore preservative to protect the bore and its part of the equation.
I used to sight in by cleaning every shot while sighting in when I used 777 there was not much choice.
Last summer I finally work out a solution, it seems like overkill but it works for me.
I swab out the barrel with a 50/50 mix of #9 and alcohol fire 3 primers swab out again drying each time then fire 3 more primers and load.
This allows me to depend on the first shot hunting to be right on even at long distance. I use Montana X bore preservative to protect the bore and its part of the equation.
01-06-2011, 07:21 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Yucca Valley,Ca
Posts: 2,496
I spent 3 years trying to get around this problem,the last two were with Blackhorn.
I used to sight in by cleaning every shot while sighting in when I used 777 there was not much choice.
Last summer I finally work out a solution, it seems like overkill but it works for me.
I swab out the barrel with a 50/50 mix of #9 and alcohol fire 3 primers swab out again drying each time then fire 3 more primers and load.
This allows me to depend on the first shot hunting to be right on even at long distance. I use Montana X bore preservative to protect the bore and its part of the equation.
I used to sight in by cleaning every shot while sighting in when I used 777 there was not much choice.
Last summer I finally work out a solution, it seems like overkill but it works for me.
I swab out the barrel with a 50/50 mix of #9 and alcohol fire 3 primers swab out again drying each time then fire 3 more primers and load.
This allows me to depend on the first shot hunting to be right on even at long distance. I use Montana X bore preservative to protect the bore and its part of the equation.
01-06-2011, 10:32 PM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: L.I., NY moved to Leland NC
Posts: 347
Being a newbie I'm hesitant to add my meager experiences in these situations but I've had good luck with my Accura just firing a primer or two then just loading without doing a dry swab prior. My first and follow up shots are consistent,I don't know but I attribute this to JBing the barrel and using the MT ext bore conditioner.
01-07-2011, 01:48 AM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 313
My Triumph throws the first shot from a clean bore 1" high @ 100y.
I don't oil the bore until the season is over. In my experience, a clean muzzleloader is no more likely to rust than a clean smokeless centerfire.
I clean simply clean with Hoppes #9, finishing with 4 or 5 dry patches.
There are many variables that could affect point of impact of the clean/cold bore shot, isolating each of them and re-testing will be nice off season project. I'd start with eliminating the gun oil.
YMMV
Good luck on your hunt!
I don't oil the bore until the season is over. In my experience, a clean muzzleloader is no more likely to rust than a clean smokeless centerfire.
I clean simply clean with Hoppes #9, finishing with 4 or 5 dry patches.
There are many variables that could affect point of impact of the clean/cold bore shot, isolating each of them and re-testing will be nice off season project. I'd start with eliminating the gun oil.
YMMV
Good luck on your hunt!
01-07-2011, 03:46 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Kerrville, Tx. USA
Posts: 2,722
Good advice, and I do this exact thing with 777 or pryodex, but don't think it would work with BH 209? Never tried it because BH needs pressure to go off?
01-07-2011, 04:12 AM
#16
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,408
My muzzleloaders are sighted in to put the first shot on target from a clean barrel. The difference between a shot from a clean barrel and a dirty barrel is very small with my guns and their loads. About 90 percent of the time one shot is all that's needed. Sometimes a coup de grace is needed but that is done from very close range.
To each his own; do what works for you.
To each his own; do what works for you.
01-07-2011, 06:19 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Clymer, New York
Posts: 35
My ML shoots better off a fouled bore for me. After I check my sights/scope before the season, I give them a thurough cleaning. I too then fire a squib load of 30g of tripple 7 and a cotton patch, followed by a field cleaning of a spit patch and a few dry patches. Now I can load and go hunting. Durring the season I will clean my ML occasionaly after several rounds have been put down the tube. Before I hunt I always use my squib load/field clean/go hunt pattern.
01-07-2011, 06:53 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Northern Chautauqua Co. N.Y.
Posts: 2,976
I Hunt and Shoot on a Fouled Barrel, the MLer shoots just where it's suppos-to when the Barrel's Fouled. On a Clean Barrel you just never know exactly where the Bullets going to hit, it may be close but I want it to be on, not close.
But when you said you (did'nt) use a Brush the second time when you cleaned your MLer that would meant there's still a smal amount of Fouling in the Barrel. But you also said the Sabot loaded (easier) without the Brushing, this does'nt make sence to me as it should have had a littler more resistance without the Brushing then when you did brush it?? So I cant answer this one......
If it was the other way around where you did Brush the Barrel I'd say your MLer likes a Fouled Barrel.
So I guess you'll just have to follow your Original Cleaning Routine and use the Brush and then see if this makes a difference and your Bullet hits in the same spot when doing so. I still dont see how the Bullet loads easier when it is not Brushed vs when it is.
(BP)
But when you said you (did'nt) use a Brush the second time when you cleaned your MLer that would meant there's still a smal amount of Fouling in the Barrel. But you also said the Sabot loaded (easier) without the Brushing, this does'nt make sence to me as it should have had a littler more resistance without the Brushing then when you did brush it?? So I cant answer this one......
If it was the other way around where you did Brush the Barrel I'd say your MLer likes a Fouled Barrel.
So I guess you'll just have to follow your Original Cleaning Routine and use the Brush and then see if this makes a difference and your Bullet hits in the same spot when doing so. I still dont see how the Bullet loads easier when it is not Brushed vs when it is.
(BP)
01-07-2011, 07:20 AM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 374
breechplug;my inline T/C's have 8 lands/grooves,most sabots have 4 petals,by indexing the sabot you can have all 8 lands in contact with the petals or only 4 in contact with the lands the other 4 lands riding in the slots between the petals(these load easier and can cause fliers,thou in my experiance not as bad what the op had)
and i would respectfully disagree that a clean barrel can't shoot accurately
...........karl
and i would respectfully disagree that a clean barrel can't shoot accurately
...........karl
01-07-2011, 07:36 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
Bonner1
First shot blues... shoot I even hate to talk about it because it seems a lot of folks face the same problem. Yours on the other hand seems to be a bit on the extreme side, BUT... if after one shot you drop right back in to the sweet place - I can not help but think it might be related to what might be in your bore during that first shot. But, then again....
I hesitate to tell you what my practices are because the really go against the norm - ya well what's new.... but I really never hunt with a 'squeaky clean bore' they are to unreliable for me. I would tell you that I hunt on a 'sorta semi-clean' bore. All of of my ML's shoot better, more consistent, on a fouled bore.
Gotta tell you have been doing this for years and it did take me awhile to develope the trust in what I do - but I do have confidence in the procedure and powder. In my case it is T7 but I have shot enough BH to tell i would not change a thing between the two powders...
What I do.... after the gun has been sighted in and shot multiple times on different occasions to confirm my sighting in process and the load that I plan on using.
Just prior to the hunting season, usually first part of October, I take the gun out and shoot 3-5 shots to confirm POI. When I get home with the gun I will run a damp (not even close to wet) windex patch and a dry patch - just for drill... At that point I run a slightly moist X-treme BC patch for two reasons. The Ether Alcohol in the BConditioner, will catch and evaporate any water vapor in the bore and will add a thin coat of protection to the metal of the bore. I really hunt in some lousy weather and would never hunt with a stipped bore - either a blued barrel or stainless, and yep! I do use muzzle mitts when appropriate. The evening prior to the hunt.. the gun is loaded and made ready for the morning hunting.
The gun will remain loaded this way as long as the season goes on. The only time I might shoot the load out or pull it is if I tell myself that I may have somehow compromised the powder. Other than that the same load could stay in the barrel for a couple of months.
If I do shoot the gun the gun during the season and yet I plan on continued use of the gun I just repeat the process suggested at the top and continue hunting. If I shoot in the field and reload in the field - prior to going home for the day I might shoot the load out or my case since I am cheap - I will pull the load at home, dump the powder, save the sabot for target practice, - then reapeat the process....
So in reality... the gun is never cleaned untill after the season... I do not even take the stock off or the windage caps off the scope - nothing is touched.... no need to do nuten.
First shot blues... shoot I even hate to talk about it because it seems a lot of folks face the same problem. Yours on the other hand seems to be a bit on the extreme side, BUT... if after one shot you drop right back in to the sweet place - I can not help but think it might be related to what might be in your bore during that first shot. But, then again....
I hesitate to tell you what my practices are because the really go against the norm - ya well what's new.... but I really never hunt with a 'squeaky clean bore' they are to unreliable for me. I would tell you that I hunt on a 'sorta semi-clean' bore. All of of my ML's shoot better, more consistent, on a fouled bore.
Gotta tell you have been doing this for years and it did take me awhile to develope the trust in what I do - but I do have confidence in the procedure and powder. In my case it is T7 but I have shot enough BH to tell i would not change a thing between the two powders...
What I do.... after the gun has been sighted in and shot multiple times on different occasions to confirm my sighting in process and the load that I plan on using.
Just prior to the hunting season, usually first part of October, I take the gun out and shoot 3-5 shots to confirm POI. When I get home with the gun I will run a damp (not even close to wet) windex patch and a dry patch - just for drill... At that point I run a slightly moist X-treme BC patch for two reasons. The Ether Alcohol in the BConditioner, will catch and evaporate any water vapor in the bore and will add a thin coat of protection to the metal of the bore. I really hunt in some lousy weather and would never hunt with a stipped bore - either a blued barrel or stainless, and yep! I do use muzzle mitts when appropriate. The evening prior to the hunt.. the gun is loaded and made ready for the morning hunting.
The gun will remain loaded this way as long as the season goes on. The only time I might shoot the load out or pull it is if I tell myself that I may have somehow compromised the powder. Other than that the same load could stay in the barrel for a couple of months.
If I do shoot the gun the gun during the season and yet I plan on continued use of the gun I just repeat the process suggested at the top and continue hunting. If I shoot in the field and reload in the field - prior to going home for the day I might shoot the load out or my case since I am cheap - I will pull the load at home, dump the powder, save the sabot for target practice, - then reapeat the process....
So in reality... the gun is never cleaned untill after the season... I do not even take the stock off or the windage caps off the scope - nothing is touched.... no need to do nuten.