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Old 06-18-2007, 05:44 PM   #1
 
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Default 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Just bought a new Omega and will go to the range next Monday. I have Pirodex pellets, but want to try loose powder. Nobody within 70 miles of me did not have 777 FFG in stock so I bought FFFG. I do not have experience with shooting loose powder. Is there something to know about measuring or amount of load of FF vs. FFF. I know that FFF is finer powder. Any input will be appreciated.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:05 PM   #2
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

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ORIGINAL: Cossack17

Just bought a new Omega and will go to the range next Monday. I have Pirodex pellets, but want to try loose powder. Nobody within 70 miles of me did not have 777 FFG in stock so I bought FFFG. I do not have experience with shooting loose powder. Is there something to know about measuring or amount of load of FF vs. FFF. I know that FFF is finer powder. Any input will be appreciated.
Since you were originally shooting Pyrodex pellets, the first thing you need to remember is loose Triple Se7en FFg is approximately 15% stronger then Pyrodex in pellet or loose form. Since you purchased Triple Se7en FFFg, it is able to produce even more power & BARREL PRESSURE.Although the increase in velocitybetween the FFG and FFFg in the Triple Se7en's is not as great as many believe.

If for instance you were shooting 100 grains of pellets in your Omega, start your testing out at 80 grains of Triple Se7en FFFg and then work your load up from there. Do not exceed 120 grains of the loose powder in your rifle. Not that I would fear the rifle will blow, but there is no need for it and it will be all the bang you're going to need unless maybe Cape Buffalo are the quarry of the day. 120 grasin of loose powder is very powerful. Most people shoot 100-110 and find that plenty. Only your rifle will tell you where to stop.

When I shoot my Black Diamond XR with T-7 FFg and a Shockwave, I shoot 110 grains of powder. When I shoot T-7 FFFgI shoot 100-105 grains of powder.

Also you might experience a slight crud ring in the breech when you shoot. Be sure and swab the barrel between shots for your best accuracy.
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:21 PM   #3
 
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Cayugad, thank you for the reply.
I have another question to ask.
My first rifle was Remington 700ML, x4 Russian scope with ORW Leupold mounts. I tried to keep it simple and 250 grains Powerbelts pushed by 2 Pirodex 50 grain pellets did a nice job on three deer. The longest time I spent looking for the downed deer was less than 5 minutes.
The problem is that occasionally I had an opportunity to see a game pass 120 yards (up to 250) and at the same time I enjoy the still hunting in the hilly areas.
So I just got a new SS Omega (28" fluited bbl) and Trijicon 3x9 Accupoint with Warne Maxima rings
The question is:
-What would you recommend for bullets and loads for the hunt if I will be mostly still hunting with scope set to x3 and 60-80 yard shoots and occasional opportunities to take 120 to 190 yard shoots (not off hand of cause)?
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Old 06-18-2007, 06:31 PM   #4
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Cossack17

Cayugad, thank you for the reply.
I have another question to ask.
My first rifle was Remington 700ML, x4 Russian scope with ORW Leupold mounts. I tried to keep it simple and 250 grains Powerbelts pushed by 2 Pirodex 50 grain pellets did a nice job on three deer. The longest time I spent looking for the downed deer was less than 5 minutes.
The problem is that occasionally I had an opportunity to see a game pass 120 yards (up to 250) and at the same time I enjoy the still hunting in the hilly areas.
So I just got a new SS Omega (28" fluited bbl) and Trijicon 3x9 Accupoint with Warne Maxima rings
The question is:
-What would you recommend for bullets and loads for the hunt if I will be mostly still hunting with scope set to x3 and 60-80 yard shoots and occasional opportunities to take 120 to 190 yard shoots (not off hand of cause)?
If you were shooting the Omega, I would load it with a 250 or 300 grain Shockwave. I would load 100 grains of loose T-7 powder. That load WITH PRACTICE should handle any whitetail deer out to 200 yards if you can shoot that well. Work for accuracy.

If 90 grains works better then 100 or even 110 then use 90 grains. People I think are getting too focused on velocity. Accuracy and shot placement is what I worry about. Even with 90 grains, that is going to produce a hard hitting load.

There are some Omega shooters on here that I am sure can tune you into a real good hard hitting long range load that works in their rifles. I base most of my long range shooting on my Black Diamond XR.

Good luck with your new rifle.
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Old 06-18-2007, 07:41 PM   #5
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Quote:
ORIGINAL: cayugad

Quote:
ORIGINAL: Cossack17

Cayugad, thank you for the reply.
I have another question to ask.
My first rifle was Remington 700ML, x4 Russian scope with ORW Leupold mounts. I tried to keep it simple and 250 grains Powerbelts pushed by 2 Pirodex 50 grain pellets did a nice job on three deer. The longest time I spent looking for the downed deer was less than 5 minutes.
The problem is that occasionally I had an opportunity to see a game pass 120 yards (up to 250) and at the same time I enjoy the still hunting in the hilly areas.
So I just got a new SS Omega (28" fluited bbl) and Trijicon 3x9 Accupoint with Warne Maxima rings
The question is:
-What would you recommend for bullets and loads for the hunt if I will be mostly still hunting with scope set to x3 and 60-80 yard shoots and occasional opportunities to take 120 to 190 yard shoots (not off hand of cause)?
If you were shooting the Omega, I would load it with a 250 or 300 grain Shockwave. I would load 100 grains of loose T-7 powder. That load WITH PRACTICE should handle any whitetail deer out to 200 yards if you can shoot that well. Work for accuracy.

If 90 grains works better then 100 or even 110 then use 90 grains. People I think are getting too focused on velocity. Accuracy and shot placement is what I worry about. Even with 90 grains, that is going to produce a hard hitting load.

There are some Omega shooters on here that I am sure can tune you into a real good hard hitting long range load that works in their rifles. I base most of my long range shooting on my Black Diamond XR.

Good luck with your new rifle.
This is what a SW can do in an Omega:

http://www.the-gleasons.com/tcshockwave300g.htm

with 100g of AM Poineer loose, not sure of the primer. Supplied Sabot. I had a heck of a time getting it down the barrel, you may also. It needs to be tight but not too tight. I did NOT try other sabots, but you could try the crushed rib or the MMP EZ-3petal if they are too tight. Oh they have a SuperGlide sabot with a SW here for $9.63 for 15:

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000308215

Oh, I now use 777 loose 3F, 100g in my Omega. The SW are excellent longer ranger bullets especially in the bonded bullet. There is evidence that the 250 fragment but the 300 stay together. The bonded don't loose their jacket, but the non-bonded SW do, but they are as accurate as heck in most Omegas for longer ranger shooting.
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Old 06-18-2007, 08:16 PM   #6
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Far be it from me to put anything down,I have used powerbelts and they did the job,I have taken quit a bit of game with PRB and the 250 shock wave with excellant results, but when it comes to a combination that gives excellant results even on large game, boar bear moose elk ect. the 50/40 200gr SW just don't have much compitition once you get out past 150 yards. My Omega will usually put them in an inch @ 100yds with 3 50gr pyrodex pellets and at around 2300fps they shoot as flat as any thing I have tried and they are devistating on game.Lee
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Old 06-18-2007, 09:09 PM   #7
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

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ORIGINAL: lemoyne

Far be it from me to put anything down,I have used powerbelts and they did the job,I have taken quit a bit of game with PRB and the 250 shock wave with excellant results, but when it comes to a combination that gives excellant results even on large game, boar bear moose elk ect. the 50/40 200gr SW just don't have much compitition once you get out past 150 yards. My Omega will usually put them in an inch @ 100yds with 3 50gr pyrodex pellets and at around 2300fps they shoot as flat as any thing I have tried and they are devistating on game.Lee
Lee, Here is the evidence on fragmentation I write of above:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thre ad=1123448850&page=1

I am sure the 250 would do the job, as will the 300 and the 200 if you put them where you are suppose to. I am sure the 200 are excellent long range, as you report, since they are going to fly longer distances. As for bonded vs no-bonded please see this:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thre ad=1130171708&page=1

And the conclusions on that board. On this board, these pictures are archived and cataloged in a Page called Bullet Performance:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Savage&thre ad=1147284597

so people can see. This was done by very experienced ML shooters, so I am sure they took the best of the best threads. Here is a great learning site:

http://dougva.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=Savage&action=display&thre ad=1095595863

for 10 ML but a lot of info is applicable to any ML. My observations above are my opinion only and are not universal statements that all MLer will shoot SW 250 and they will fragment. As we all know each individual rifle has bullet, powder, sabot, charge and primerthat is optimum or near optimum for any givenrifle. Sorry if I confused anyone, my statements are my own, I am not a gun writer representing any product, company, or business, just an ordinary Joe shooter. Chap Gleason


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Old 06-19-2007, 07:45 AM   #8
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Default RE: 777 powder FF vs FFF question

Have shot Triple Seven FFG in my CVA Mag. Hunter on two occasionsfor a total of about 50 rounds. The primer was Winchester M/L. Judging from the recoil, Triple Seven is a very powerful propellant, much more so that Pyrodex in any of it's forms.

The purpose of my range visits was to work up a 300 grain bullet load for use on hogs. Started at 80 grains of Triple Seven FFG and worked up to 100 in ten grain increments. At 100 grains i found that my rifle shot 300 grain .44 caliber XTP,300 grain SST and those useless 300 grain PTX bullets to exactly the same point of impact at 100 yards. Allgroupsweretwo inches or less at that distance. One group with the SST was .60 inches.

100 grains of Triple Seven FFG with a 300 grain bullet in my light weight CVA does produce some recoil. Found my new hog loadfor the Mag. Hunter.
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